When I was 9 Star Wars was the biggest thing ever. I scraped and saved and bought the entire set of action figures (12 in all, at about $1.75 each). I played with these things and they got dirty and damaged and some broke.

If I'd have kept them in their box in pristine condition they'd now be worth thousands of dollars.

But I can easily say that if I had a choice between the childhood joy those toys bought me and a few thousand dollars I would chose the joy and memories without hesitation.

My S2000 is exactly the same. The childlike joy I get from enjoying it far exceeds the potential resale value I could ever recoup. That goes for driving it, tinkering with it, and hanging out with you guys (yes, even Bieg )

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elistan Isn't it also true to say that, by far, the number of modded civics is totally dwarfed by the number of stock ones?

 

I didn't think he was.

As long as you know why, thats cool. In that case, you don't need to worry about what Beig thinks, do you?

 

Do-it-yourelf mods diminish the value of any car from a collectability or resale standpoint. Mods from true tuners-AMG, RUF etc. can enhance their resale. For now, Honda tuning lacks a tuner who's name adds that sort of value. Hopefully one or more will evolve but the 'art' of tuning and name-brand tuner appears to to exist to cater to the higher priced elite for those who prefer to hire others to get their hands dirty.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverFog
[B]We get one guy here who intelligently and calmly expresses an opinion, and the MODERATORS take part in vilifying him, while turning a BLIND EYE to all the PERSONAL ATTACKS that are leveled at him, while they all warn BEIG to watch it?

You used the word hypocritical.

 

FOR THE RECORD, there is a difference between posting a differing opinion to a post and making a personal attack against the poster.

 

True, but something tells me Beig isn't out there trying to find a way to hermetically seal his S2000.

I'm squealing the tires, cornering hard, hitting VTEC like any other nut here who enjoys this car -- as I have done with all of my cars. I'll bet Beig is too. All of my cars have also sold for significantly higher than the asking price of any other equivalent model at the time, in my area, in the past -- despite this. I suspect Beig's have also.

As soon as somebody here can show me some substantial numbers to justify changing this car's parameters, I'll look into it. For the time being, the small gains and minor performance increases that are being discovered are not impressive. They are certainly not enough to justify deviation from stock. Everything else is "for the hell of it", obviously.

As soon as somebody here can show me something that comes close to delivering the same bang-for-buck as my original purchase, I'll be interested.

In the meantime, ho-hum. In the meantime, I've got a pristine S2000.

(not specifically to Aus2000):

I would seriously like to see some of these people drive their cars -- are they really THAT skilled that these small improvements will ACTUALLY make a difference?

Put a professional driver behind the wheel of a stock S2000 and see what he can do against the majority of those here who've put thousands into incremental upgrades.

Its an unassailable position it seems -- to mod. On the one hand, if there are NO concrete improvements then the person says "I don't care, I had fun modifying my car" and on the other hand, if there is ANY improvement in performance, no matter how small, the modder is justified: "see, it was worth it."

Its remarkable how NOBODY seems to have ever said: "Know what? That thing I just bolted on my car made no appreciable difference, and I am disappointed!" Even more remarkable when many of the products out there have no appreciable difference and can even HURT performance.

I consider myself an educated consumer. I want to see results before putting down my money. If it doesn't add up, I don't buy. If I buy, and it fails to impress me, back it goes. The S2000 is impressive. So far the various mods out there are not.

I guess I differ from Beig slightly in that if something does promise to improve the car, and can, then I will try it. However, if it makes it difficult to return the car to stock, then it had BETTER be worth it.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverFog
[B]Yes, that is also true.

 

krazik: I am sorry you feel that I am attacking the moderators here. I would happily forfeit my posting privileges if it was by action of pointing out fasicm and other threats to free-speech.

I will stand behind what I say when I say that the moderators seem to come down hard on someone like Bieg, and yet do nothing when practically every other participant resorts to personal attacks and all forms of bullshit.

Bieg gets personal messages from moderators who threaten to pull his posting privileges -- and yet, I STILL don't see what is so offensive about ANYTHING Bieg has ever written.

Bieg's only crime is to hold strongly, and eloquently, an opinion that differs from that obviously held by those appointed to moderate this forum.

So, krazik -- since you have identified the issue enough to be ready to pull my privileges, I ask you this: Why does someone like Bieg have to be so absolutely careful in expressing his opinion, and others do not?


No, actually Bieg and others pipe up about how they FEEL modding the car is pointless.

There is a big difference between piping up and acrimony, personal attack, threats, etc.


Defensive? In fact, I defend nobody. I do go on the offensive when I see people resort to personal attacks to try and shout-down an opinion they do not like. Even if I do not like the opinion.

If it were as you say, this EXACT SAME thing -- then I would be defending Bieg and "the others" while they make personal attacks.

I don't see that happening.

If I saw a modder go about expressing his opinions about why he does what he does, and he gets vilified and shouted-out for it, I will jump in and cry foul, even IF he has a different opinion.

I welcome different opinions because they either teach me something or further temper my own.

The impression the moderators make, in warning Bieg and being laissez-faire about everybody else's behaviour is that different opinions are not welcome here.

 

Vaper

You don't think Mugen is a real Honda tuner???

I think we need a new forum - the "Mod Debate" forum....