S2000 Brakes at the track
02-07-2002, 07:41 AM
#51
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CDelana,
I find myself in the same boat as you in regards to the brakes and the abuse i put them thru. Hopefully as my experience grows i'll be able to utilize my brakes more effeciently and thus reduce their abuse... But who knows??
UL,
I figured that the rotating mass of the hat and rotor contribute very little to MOI, with them being so close to the axis of rotation. Thus i only think of them as unsprung mass. My CE28N's on the other hand should contribute greatly to an improvment in MOI. However, That may be more than offset by the use of wider and heavier tires... I'm hoping for a break even there.
I find myself in the same boat as you in regards to the brakes and the abuse i put them thru. Hopefully as my experience grows i'll be able to utilize my brakes more effeciently and thus reduce their abuse... But who knows??
UL,
I figured that the rotating mass of the hat and rotor contribute very little to MOI, with them being so close to the axis of rotation. Thus i only think of them as unsprung mass. My CE28N's on the other hand should contribute greatly to an improvment in MOI. However, That may be more than offset by the use of wider and heavier tires... I'm hoping for a break even there.
02-07-2002, 08:33 AM
#52
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With all of these lengthy and informative posts (thanks everyone for helping to reduce (or perhaps complicate) the confusion on brake performance at the race track)), I thought I'd make a rather short post.
The "ultimate affordable brake upgrade" pt two will be coming VERY soon. (Including multiple brake pad options, troutman brake lines, Bulletproof carbon fiber brake ducts v3, brake fluid, etc. all at great prices, which should be nothing less than expected)
This will be the same as the widely popular ultimate brake group buy that was done last summer. However this time all products will be in stock in advance to avoid supply/manufacturing problems encountered last summer.
Stay tuned!
Ben
PS: For all you racers, I'm running a special on Bieffe helmets currently. If interested, check out the post in the group buy forum, or email me at Ben@BulletproofAutomotive.com
Well, I need to run and drop my car off at the fabricator for a little secret project that you all will surely like.
TTYL8R
The "ultimate affordable brake upgrade" pt two will be coming VERY soon. (Including multiple brake pad options, troutman brake lines, Bulletproof carbon fiber brake ducts v3, brake fluid, etc. all at great prices, which should be nothing less than expected)
This will be the same as the widely popular ultimate brake group buy that was done last summer. However this time all products will be in stock in advance to avoid supply/manufacturing problems encountered last summer.
Stay tuned!
Ben
PS: For all you racers, I'm running a special on Bieffe helmets currently. If interested, check out the post in the group buy forum, or email me at Ben@BulletproofAutomotive.com
Well, I need to run and drop my car off at the fabricator for a little secret project that you all will surely like.
TTYL8R
02-07-2002, 02:43 PM
#53
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GTRPower and UL
I have never attempted to mislead any one . Information posted was backed with , where , why and by whom . My conclusions are again mine and I stated that ( surprised that you gave me credit for that).
I will continue to collect as much data as we are able to . I will continue to post the data collected and give my opinions along with as much supporting data as we have , for other peoples use .
I always like the posts that say, what people do, are not correct , because they don't do things , the same way , the other person does .
Most times when you draw a conclusion , it is commonsense that leads you in a certain direction .
But there are always people along the way that are the show me type .
To give you a quick example : What temperature do you think bearings might start having problems? ( lets not think about it because we did not measure them ) Would elevated temperatures help the bearings ? ( who knows) Do you think the grease in the bearings works better under high loading and high temperatures ? What temperature is too much 345degress or 425degrees maybe 290 degrees who knows ? Lets put our head in the sand and not continue to investigate the high temperatures in the hubs , because , know one gave us the temperature ,of the bearing itself . Maybe the heat from this hot rotor only goes into wheel . ( maybe Honda used a special steel in the hub that won't transfer heat , and we can't possibly have a problem) . Remember above , we don't know what the problem temperature is .
To end this post , I invite constructive criticism of any post . I feel that any person posting should explain how they determined , any what or why .
To reply to a post ,that some one should not supply information , because you don't feel there is enough for YOU to draw a conclusion , is nuts. I hope all the information that was posted , gets people involved in improving their own information gathering . I would like to see more people collecting data , that could be shared with all the people on this board .
brad
Ps
dlq04
This test was for our information , we were not trying to produce a sales information packet . We are very happy with the way our kits are working and we will continue to refine them . I felt that having Warren at the track , it would be a great chance to supply other information to the owners of the stock brake systems . We were not trying to do any type of controlled testing . I will in the near future be doing some controlled testing ,of brake ducts , hub temperatures and bearing temperatures for my self , for fun. Use any of the information as you see fit , PM any of the people that owned the cars that we tested for their input.
I have never attempted to mislead any one . Information posted was backed with , where , why and by whom . My conclusions are again mine and I stated that ( surprised that you gave me credit for that).
I will continue to collect as much data as we are able to . I will continue to post the data collected and give my opinions along with as much supporting data as we have , for other peoples use .
I always like the posts that say, what people do, are not correct , because they don't do things , the same way , the other person does .
Most times when you draw a conclusion , it is commonsense that leads you in a certain direction .
But there are always people along the way that are the show me type .
To give you a quick example : What temperature do you think bearings might start having problems? ( lets not think about it because we did not measure them ) Would elevated temperatures help the bearings ? ( who knows) Do you think the grease in the bearings works better under high loading and high temperatures ? What temperature is too much 345degress or 425degrees maybe 290 degrees who knows ? Lets put our head in the sand and not continue to investigate the high temperatures in the hubs , because , know one gave us the temperature ,of the bearing itself . Maybe the heat from this hot rotor only goes into wheel . ( maybe Honda used a special steel in the hub that won't transfer heat , and we can't possibly have a problem) . Remember above , we don't know what the problem temperature is .
To end this post , I invite constructive criticism of any post . I feel that any person posting should explain how they determined , any what or why .
To reply to a post ,that some one should not supply information , because you don't feel there is enough for YOU to draw a conclusion , is nuts. I hope all the information that was posted , gets people involved in improving their own information gathering . I would like to see more people collecting data , that could be shared with all the people on this board .
brad
Ps
dlq04
This test was for our information , we were not trying to produce a sales information packet . We are very happy with the way our kits are working and we will continue to refine them . I felt that having Warren at the track , it would be a great chance to supply other information to the owners of the stock brake systems . We were not trying to do any type of controlled testing . I will in the near future be doing some controlled testing ,of brake ducts , hub temperatures and bearing temperatures for my self , for fun. Use any of the information as you see fit , PM any of the people that owned the cars that we tested for their input.
02-07-2002, 03:32 PM
#54
Registered User
Brad, you are marvelously obtuse when you get defensive.
You made statements and conclusions that were completely unfounded. Statements and conclusions that 'common sense' would usually identify as false. You were called on it. You can either deal with it or continue to ramble on.
Instead of seeking problems where none exist, solve the real problems. You're trying to do that with your brake kit (reduction in brake efficiency). There are multiple solutions to every problem. Time will tell if you chose an optimum one.
If you do some investigation you'll find out that very heavy duty wheel bearing grease has a drop temperature of around 500 F, but its only stable to about 350-375 F. Since no one has reported any issues with wheel bearing failure on S2000s (and we have plenty on the track) that are probably using far more pedestrian, cost saving grease (since our cars are built to a cost), what does common sense tell you?
I would suggest that instead of worrying about people sticking their heads in the sand, you think about whether or not the sky is really falling.
I'm out.
UL
You made statements and conclusions that were completely unfounded. Statements and conclusions that 'common sense' would usually identify as false. You were called on it. You can either deal with it or continue to ramble on.
Instead of seeking problems where none exist, solve the real problems. You're trying to do that with your brake kit (reduction in brake efficiency). There are multiple solutions to every problem. Time will tell if you chose an optimum one.
If you do some investigation you'll find out that very heavy duty wheel bearing grease has a drop temperature of around 500 F, but its only stable to about 350-375 F. Since no one has reported any issues with wheel bearing failure on S2000s (and we have plenty on the track) that are probably using far more pedestrian, cost saving grease (since our cars are built to a cost), what does common sense tell you?
I would suggest that instead of worrying about people sticking their heads in the sand, you think about whether or not the sky is really falling.
I'm out.
UL
02-07-2002, 04:08 PM
#55
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dwb1
[B]dlq04
This test was for our information , we were not trying to produce a sales information packet . We are very happy with the way our kits are working and we will continue to refine them . I felt that having Warren at the track , it would be a great chance to supply other information to the owners of the stock brake systems .
[B]dlq04
This test was for our information , we were not trying to produce a sales information packet . We are very happy with the way our kits are working and we will continue to refine them . I felt that having Warren at the track , it would be a great chance to supply other information to the owners of the stock brake systems .
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