S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

S2K bubble?

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Old May 20, 2021 | 09:05 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by donkeykong
This is truly the mic drop of the thread! I've never heard anybody lamenting the fact that their possession has increased in value! Anybody saying otherwise is posturing and lying to themselves, because when it does become time to sell...I guarantee they won't sell their $20,000 S2000 at $12,000 "for the good of humanity"! Everybody should afford houses, everybody should have an affordable sports car, except that's not how things work. Not a single person in this thread is selling their $250,000 house for $90,000 so that everybody can have a home, that's virtue signaling plane and simple!
Housing is a necessity and should be a basic human right. The reasons people ‘need’ cars in the US include bad city planning, racism/suburbia, and disinvestment in transit and multi modal transportation.

If I ever sell my car I’d sell it for much less than it is worth to ensure it never reaches the hands of some goober who’ll not continue the only effort I deem worthwhile with relation to cars....making it look rad.

Originally Posted by Viola10
Matt Farah has talked about specific cars as being an "x-amount-of-dollars driving experience," as in,"the R33 GT-R is a $50,000 driving experience." That can be taken in a number of ways so you'd have to ask him what he meant. I presume this is his way of quantifying the subjective, intrinsic value of a car, independent from the market value. Or possibly what it would cost to buy or modify a different car to achieve a similar experience.

In that spirit, I think a stock S2000 is a $30,000 driving experience.
I think that is more reasonable. 30k is high to me, but I also think it’s ridiculous that people pay over 10k for NA miatas when other cars exist.

Originally Posted by Jub
Nah, Cody is not a troll. He believes what he believes whether or not you agree with it. I often do not but I do agree with him that the kool-aid here is strong. Car mags are meh and most of the opinions/quotes posted are 10+ years old when the S2k was still in production. Lots have changed since then but if we want to post things comparing a 200x s2k to a 200x Boxter, sure take the W. Since then, things have changed. In its time, the S2k was contemporarily great, objectively and subjectively. That legacy is worth celebrating, sure. Its values have made it so that it does not need to be compared to contemporaries but to cars that currently cost the same. In that regard, it is arguably competitive, 20 years after it was engineered. For that reason, it is truly still great, but not blindly so. Is it worth it when other cars that cost the same start to be objectively better... That is what I think is at stake here. Justifying that is appealing in subjective terms which the S2k does provide. Awesome that it does but understand it for what it is.
Great post. Couldn’t agree with you more.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 10:32 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by TsukubaCody

If I ever sell my car I’d sell it for much less than it is worth to ensure it never reaches the hands of some goober who’ll not continue the only effort I deem worthwhile with relation to cars....making it look rad.
As you well know, the cars that are bringing top dollar, are LOW mileage, UNALTERED, cars. That's what the goobers want, and are paying top dollar for. If your car qualifies to be included on that list, than please put me on your short list of people willing to buy your car. Hell, I'll even go buy me a pair of skinny ass jeans, and ditch the Dad jeans in that case.


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Old May 20, 2021 | 10:58 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by silvio1522
As you well know, the cars that are bringing top dollar, are LOW mileage, UNALTERED, cars. That's what the goobers want, and are paying top dollar for. If your car qualifies to be included on that list, than please put me on your short list of people willing to buy your car. Hell, I'll even go buy me a pair of skinny ass jeans, and ditch the Dad jeans in that case.
Yes, I understand the cars that are the dorkiest and least likely to ever be enjoyed are worth the most.

A rising tide lifts all boats, including my modified, high mileage that likely sees more use than most of those owned by the folks that go on and on about special the car is in stock form. Almost like its easier to read a magazine for an opinion than to form one’s own.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:12 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by TsukubaCody
Yes, I understand the cars that are the dorkiest and least likely to ever be enjoyed are worth the most.
Actually they are referred to cars that haven't been F'd over. I would rather be the one to have that pleasure. Take me off your list. Back to the Dad jeans it is.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:19 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by silvio1522
Actually they are referred to cars that haven't been F'd over. I would rather be the one to have that pleasure. Take me off your list. Back to the Dad jeans it is.
You’re making a pretty big assumption about how 12-22 year old sports cars have been treated. A stock car doesn’t mean cared for. A modified car doesn’t mean it has been run ragged.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:34 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by TsukubaCody
Housing is a necessity and should be a basic human right. The reasons people ‘need’ cars in the US include bad city planning, racism/suburbia, and disinvestment in transit and multi modal transportation.
Without delving deep into current politics here, the reasons you mention "the need for cars" in the US are far more rooted in history, sheer land area, and federation of states rather than the "woke" issues you mention. And I think saying "it's a basic human right to demand someone else's resources and labor" is a bit misguided. Someone should have to harvest, refine, and build you something simply because you exist? That's quite a different take than "I can say whatever I wish" or "believe what religion I want" level of human rights.

In fact, it's the same history as to why we drive on the right instead of the left despite coming from British roots. Napoleon, being himself, decided to make everyone ride on the right instead. Being unable to touch Britain, they kept their Roman roots of riding on the left. Then it spread from there, basically anyone who was a British colony would ride on the left and French colonies would ride on the right. Most of Europe was taken over by Napoleon at that time, hence why they largely drive on the right still. Britain made it official with the Highway Act of 1835.

So what about America? We had a lot of land to travel and needed better transportation, so wagons pulled by multiple animals came about. Having 4-6 animals pulling a wagon was not unusual, so it made the most sense to sit on the left-rear animal (to whip the others using your right hand). And sitting on the left, you're naturally going to drive on the right. Hence why America to this day still drives on the right despite being a British colony.

Quite simply, the US developed differently than other places in the world. Europe and Asia developed more densely in urban areas where the US had suburban sprawl. In places where urban growth did take place quickly, like New York, we do have transit systems. But most of the country did not grow like this and we still had large distances to cover. How do you imagine to build a commuter friendly transit system that can work equally well for people out in Oklahoma as well as San Francisco? And who is responsible for maintaining these systems as they cross state boundaries? Anyone who has good roads in their states but can see the stark contrast as they cross into neighboring states knows this all too well.

Not to say things couldn't be better, but you're taking a really selective view of how we got here and inserting virtue signaling boogeymen instead of the true history and factors involved. Post-war America saw car prices drop, expressways built, and suburbs growing fast. Not to mention cheap gas compared to the rest of the world, and people's own feeling of independence and freedom of movement. There's also the social culture around cars, which plays a factor in it as well (keeping up with the Jones' and all). I too wish public transit was better here but I'm not going to just throw buzzwords out to blame for it.

The reality is American culture favors the automobile. It has always been a culture of self-expression and freedom, meaning the ability to do what one wishes when they like. And waiting on a late bus or train isn't part of the American hustle, rich or poor. And to act is if there is a certain "overtone" or "ulterior motive" about it, I'd say go to your poor areas and watch how many people still drive to work despite having a bus that could take them. It's not because they can't, it's because they also don't want to.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:41 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Viola10
In that spirit, I think a stock S2000 is a $30,000 driving experience.
Originally Posted by TsukubaCody
I think that is more reasonable. 30k is high to me, but I also think it’s ridiculous that people pay over 10k for NA miatas when other cars exist.
Yeah, maybe it's in the $25K-$30K range, considering what a FI NC2/3 Miata with suspension, wheels, and tires offers (besides less weight and better steering).

I don't get it with expensive NA Miatas, either.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:42 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by erikthepanda
Without delving deep into current politics here, the reasons you mention "the need for cars" in the US are far more rooted in history, sheer land area, and federation of states rather than the "woke" issues you mention. And I think saying "it's a basic human right to demand someone else's resources and labor" is a bit misguided. Someone should have to harvest, refine, and build you something simply because you exist? That's quite a different take than "I can say whatever I wish" or "believe what religion I want" level of human rights.

In fact, it's the same history as to why we drive on the right instead of the left despite coming from British roots. Napoleon, being himself, decided to make everyone ride on the right instead. Being unable to touch Britain, they kept their Roman roots of riding on the left. Then it spread from there, basically anyone who was a British colony would ride on the left and French colonies would ride on the right. Most of Europe was taken over by Napoleon at that time, hence why they largely drive on the right still. Britain made it official with the Highway Act of 1835.

So what about America? We had a lot of land to travel and needed better transportation, so wagons pulled by multiple animals came about. Having 4-6 animals pulling a wagon was not unusual, so it made the most sense to sit on the left-rear animal (to whip the others using your right hand). And sitting on the left, you're naturally going to drive on the right. Hence why America to this day still drives on the right despite being a British colony.

Quite simply, the US developed differently than other places in the world. Europe and Asia developed more densely in urban areas where the US had suburban sprawl. In places where urban growth did take place quickly, like New York, we do have transit systems. But most of the country did not grow like this and we still had large distances to cover. How do you imagine to build a commuter friendly transit system that can work equally well for people out in Oklahoma as well as San Francisco? And who is responsible for maintaining these systems as they cross state boundaries? Anyone who has good roads in their states but can see the stark contrast as they cross into neighboring states knows this all too well.

Not to say things couldn't be better, but you're taking a really selective view of how we got here and inserting virtue signaling boogeymen instead of the true history and factors involved. Post-war America saw car prices drop, expressways built, and suburbs growing fast. Not to mention cheap gas compared to the rest of the world, and people's own feeling of independence and freedom of movement. There's also the social culture around cars, which plays a factor in it as well (keeping up with the Jones' and all). I too wish public transit was better here but I'm not going to just throw buzzwords out to blame for it.
Government totally had no part in suburbs and expressways being built. Definitely not influenced by racism at all! These aren’t buzzwords, they’re facts that you’re choosing to overlook because you don’t want to reckon with them.

The country could be completely built around cars in under a century but combatting that is entirely impossible. Gotcha.

And yes, everyone deserves healthy food and a safe place to live. Contemporary politics don’t inform that viewpoint, the existence of a basic moral compass does.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:50 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by TsukubaCody
Yes, I understand the cars that are the dorkiest and least likely to ever be enjoyed are worth the most.

A rising tide lifts all boats, including my modified, high mileage that likely sees more use than most of those owned by the folks that go on and on about special the car is in stock form. Almost like its easier to read a magazine for an opinion than to form one’s own.
I doubt that highly! Honda made a great car as is, you find it "dorky" that's cool and your opinion. I doubt anybody needed to read a magazine to come to that conclusion. Out of the 4 S2000's I've owned only this most current one has Ohlins...the rest were completely stock. I didn't keep coming back because I read magazines, I kept coming back because the car feels right, more "right" than any other car I've driven.

Over the past 22 years I've owned over 80 cars...I've tried an awful lot of things.
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Old May 20, 2021 | 11:55 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by TsukubaCody

If I ever sell my car I’d sell it for much less than it is worth to ensure it never reaches the hands of some goober who’ll not continue the only effort I deem worthwhile with relation to cars....making it look rad.

.
Just to be clear this is pure, unadulterated, BS!!!

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