That first-generation 86/BRZ motor is such a dog, it genuinely detracted from everything else that I remember enjoying about the experience of the cars. Kind of like the Star Wars prequels: They were so bad, their existence made me question my love for the originals.

They're more sensible cars to use as a car if that's what you are buying one for. But the engine and the cheaper suspension architecture lets it down compared to the S and the Miata.

Once this semiconductor shortage abates, car-production levels out, and the used car values return to Earth, a $10K to $15K used-86/BRZ isn't going to look like much of a deal compared to a sub-$20K ND2.

The NC2/3 Miatas are the real sleepers here as far as an experience, although they are also overpriced right now. The relative lack of demand for the neutered ND1s along with all of the other supply-chain issues seems to have put upward price pressure on the ND2 and NC Miatas that makes them a little harder to argue for right now.

 

I just don't see it as irrational or kool-aid drinking. I love the S2000! I'm on my 4th and last, I've made posts about it in the past. I've looked at other things, I've tried other things, I've bought a ton of other things and keep coming back to the S2000...and for good this time! Price be damned, I can't find a better combination of GPW over Red with handling, sound, feel, feedback and gorgeous looks. Now I will say this, perhaps it's because I'm fortunate enough to have multiple cars so I don't have to have just the S2000 and need it to do absolutely everything. I've had my Viper out one time this year so far and typically, when it's not raining, walk directly to my S2000 space in the garage each morning. Besides shifting feel the Viper will destroy the Honda in every category all day long unless we're on the tightest of road courses, which we're not, 100% of the time...and I've wanted to drive it ONE time this year over my Honda. Same with my M3, I actually use that car for the rain and snow...and it's a damn good vehicle!

Maybe that is irrational, I don't know. What I do know is that I don't care about the price, I want an AP1 S2000, I have an AP1 S2000, and I won't be getting rid of it any time soon. As a matter of fact, if I ever get into financial trouble, the very last thing to go will be that Honda.

 

No, that's growth away from cars, because there really isn't any "hype"...the 20 year old car is that good!

 

It used to be that you'd pay more money to get more performance. But now we are in an era when most of the performance gains are inaccessible on public roads and regulations are excuses for making everything too big, too heavy, too overgeared. It's easy to understand the affinity for more analog experiences from cars that are still performative enough for the street but have (some) modern affordances.

In that light, if $20K S2000s are now $30K and $30K Elises are $45K, maybe it's less of a bubble and more of a trend?

 

^^^^^ Exactly ^^^^^^ But people are going to go to great lengths, to tell you, that you SHOULD like Skor bars, and obviously you just haven't acquired a taste for them yet, kinda like Kool Aid.

 

I believe that @twohoos uses a program called Tableau and inputs the data himself as S2000 sales on BaT progress.

 

This. I'm actually interested in the upcoming 86 to use for more commuting duties. But have low hopes for the engine. Sure, torque dip will be gone, but it's still a Subie boxer engine; expect the same uninspiring sound and unwilling revs. Everything else seems promising though.

The theatrics of the F20C just can't be beat, and I'm grateful for being able to get on the train just as it left the bubble station.

 

Theatrics are underrated. I was disappointed Toyota didn't develop their own inline 4 more in line with the 4a or even 3sge. There's no character to the FA. Closest thing now is the ND2 Miata now. And the ND2 proves Toyota could have developed a proper NA I4 even with emissions restrictions, but I suppose Toyota went for the financially conservative option of doing collabs. The new 86 staying NA is good at least. Fully expected them to slap on a tiny turbo.

I was more excited for the canceled SFR because it seemed more in line with the spirit of 4a cars. Would have instantly bought that on release.

 

There is absolutely hype. The S2000 price isn’t going up because people are driving them more. They’re going up because middle aged goobers are buying them for more than they’re worth and somehow that leads to more goobers overpaying and not using them.

People aren’t buying low mileage S2000s to use and enjoy.

In this analogy, a more accurate summary of my viewpoint is that you should like neither because cars are bad as a whole. But if you’re going to eat a candy bar, there is nothing about the oh henry that makes it worth double what you paid for one three years ago.

 

So they should be buying new ND2's for the same money or more? Why? At the end of the day, when they go to sell and both cars have the same mileage, which is going to retain some value? Do all those creature comforts and must haves, really warrant that kind of depreciation? Maybe those goobers are on to something.