So I'm officially fed up with these guys.

As some of you may know, I purchased a set of MS CE28s with Toyo RA1s mounted on them from Chris@SoS on Feb 27. He was also offering them without the tires for $200 less, but shoot if they have +50% tread even though they are RA1s they'll make great street tires (I've been rolling RA1s as street tires for the last 4 years and I love em). Before the sale, I spoke with Chris on the phone about the condition and whatnot, and also about the confusion of the wrong pictures being posted on his for sale ad. Chris also mentioned that the wheels were from the shop car, and there were a couple sets of them needing to disappear. Win for me! Yey!

Having previously purchased from SOS before, as well as acknowledging them as a standing sponsor of S2Ki, I figured it'd be a safe bet to purchase from these guys. OK, here are my credit card #s. A few days later, the wheels came on a pallet via OnTrac/California Overnight. Very speedy delivery as well as great packaging. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Upon further inspection, I noticed that the tires were actually in some sorry ass condition. I politely call back to ask if I indeed get the correct set of wheels and I get Bryan (who was great, by the way) who mentioned that the only person who could help me with this is Chris, who is out of town. Well why can't Bryan help me? Bryan begins to tell me about how this is off of one of Chris's S2000s, blah blah, and it's actually from his personal car. Bryan also was kind enough to e-mail me a copy of my invoice which I did not receive initially. This is strange since it's a personal sale, but I get an invoice from the company? What's going on? Lol. Anyway that's besides the matter. Bryan suggested I e-mail info@scienceofspeed.com. Cool. I was informed by Chris that the tires had 50% tread life remaining. What he neglected to say was that the tires had abnormal wear from not enough camber, toe or whatever (it doesn't matter at this point) and the overall tread remaining is greater than 50%. Well what the hell does 50% REALLY mean, anyway. If the outer shoulder is cording, but the inner shoulder is untouched, does that mean 50%? Judging by the way SOS gauges their rubber, I guess it does. 50% of 0/32"s shaved perhaps? F if I know.

So back and forth e-mails here and there talking about this and I'm asking SOS what they can do to make this right. Well Chris is offering to take the wheels and tires back, and refund me the $ MINUS the shipping. On top of that I have to pay out of pocket to ship the wheels back, so I lose out on shipping $ twice on wheels which were not correctly advertised. I then inquire about just shipping the just tires back to see what SOS is willing to do for me for my hassles. They're willing to take off the $200, but then it's going to cost me like $150 just to get this garbage dismounted and shipped back. I don't want SOS to give me wheels or tires for free, I just want them to make this transaction right. It turns out, whatever options they have offered, I'm going to lose out like $300 in shipping costs if I send the wheels and tires back, and if I ship just the tires back, I'm going to lose like $150, which means I will have paid like $1900 for 3 awesome MS CE28s and 1 semi-awesome MS CE28 because it's got this nick in one of the spokes (which was clearly pointed out). Would I have paid $1900 for the used wheels alone? No. The thought of getting good tires is what sweetened up the deal for me.

Then there's the whole center caps deal. When I was asking my 21 pre-sale questions with Chris, I asked about center caps. He denies having this conversation because center caps are not used on race cars, nor does VR suggest their usage in such fashion. Well that's just grand, because these wheels are my new street wheels, so who Fing cares - I want the blingin center caps! Chris offers to give me what actually is a good deal, but again I lost out because of another miscommunication with them and as such, I will be spending another $150 or whatever just to get what I thought I would be getting in the first place.

What would joo do? Credit card chargeback? Small claims? Am I being way out of line? Either way, I lose. My time is just about as valuable to me as $, but more important than me saving $150-$300 which I work very hard for: letting people know what to expect when buying from Science of Speed.

I don't consider this a completed transaction and my e-mails with SOS are going nowhere....I don't want to call them anymore, either, since I have a short history of them saying one thing and doing another. :/

You be the judge:



EDIT: Here's one of Chris's e-mails:

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:18 PM, ScienceofSpeed Info <info@scienceofspeed.com> wrote:
> hi Dong --
>
> We sent you the set with the most tread. The fronts have typical wear on
> the outside shoulder from not enough camber (not toe). However, the
> tread on the complete tire is signficantly more than the 50% advertised
> in the ad.
>
> There are no center caps advertised (I double checked the ad). We don't
> run or recommend running center caps on race wheels as most tracks
> specificly do not advise running these for safety.

Here's another:

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, ScienceofSpeed Info <info@scienceofspeed.com> wrote:
> hi Dong --
>
> I'm not sure what you mean a photo of the tread, I don't see any posted?
> I assure you that the tread is more than 50% available. The fronts when
> I measured them were over 75% and the rears more than 50%. I advertised
> them at 50% and the price of the tires ($200) more than reflected this
> (these tires are more than $800.00 new).
>

HOLY crap, 75%???? and I was being conservative!

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM, ScienceofSpeed Info <info@scienceofspeed.com> wrote:
> hi Dong --
>
> If you will ship the tires back to us, I will refund you in full for the tires minus shipping. I ask that they are returned within 30 days from today.

Banter about this tire in the Tire forum:
My Webpage

Banter about this tire in the Racing and Competition forum, so those cats have much more experience with RA1s:
My Webpage

Unfortunately I cannot cite the original FS ad, because Chris has deleted the contents (which also makes me curious how he checks the original ad).

Here's what new RA1s looks like:


Here's what a shaved RA1 to 2.5mm looks like


EDIT:
In closing, I did not want to lose more $ than what I would have spent had I elected not to buy the tires. It's too bad SOS couldn't accomodate this, even if the difference in their offer and my likings was $50-$60 or whatever my tire handler wants. I guess when Chris says he's 'firm' he really means it. That may work in a craigslist ad or something, but this is a retail sale.

To please the curious, in total I spent $2258 to have this combo delivered to me. The $ is important to me, yes I am a cheap-a$$, but I wonder if SOS has an understanding that the principals have a great deal to do with my courses of action. Unfortunately I would rather take my chances with the CC companies than take an offer I would be only half-happy and never know if I was going to get ALL of my $ back.

All I have to say to you buyers, ALWAYS pay with a CC. If it's a larger amount, authorizing payment split amongst two CCs is even better!

I'm not planning on replying anymore since too many people are crying about seeing it, so I'll just update the the OP as events unfold.

 

So that's why you posted those pics before. It would be good to hear chris's side. However, those tires look pretty shot.

 

50% left on a tire should mean that at the most worn part of the tread should have 50% tread left. SOS didn't correctly advertise the condition of the tires so I think they should eat the shipping both ways.

 

+1

Dan

 

Crappy situation man, honestly, I've never had any issues on any of my purchases with SOS. Infact, when I needed replacement wheels thats were discontinued they totally hooked me up so I could get my car on the road in a timely fashion. I hope this works out for you, Chris has been helpful in unorthodox situations before Im sure he will help set this straight in the end for you.

 

I say stop talking about sending them back and eating shipping charges. Propose a partial (or full) refund for the cost of 50% tread tires. How much can 1/2 worn tires really be worth? Or have him cover 1/2 the cost of new tires.

As for center caps, meh, I don't know what to tell you without seeing the original ad.

He doesn't want them back and you probably really don't want to send them back because you like them despite all of this so meet in the middle and be fair about it.

 

[QUOTE=3ngin33r1,Mar 11 2008, 07:29 AM] I say stop talking about sending them back and eating shipping charges.

 

That tire is fcking bald man. lol

 

I will never buy from them again. Their return policys are a total rip off for an internet business. Not worth the hassle.

 

Those tired look terrible. I woundn't take it even if it free. Would any one here willing to sell this to some one else and think it o.k ? Ask Chris if he would put this tires on his own car ? That a shame what they did ripping people off like that.