two S2000's crash in Philly 1 dead.....
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From: You wish
I don't think you can take it to that conclusion Strike, unless you consider yourself to be a living weapon that can kill innocent bystanders when jaywalking...:-)
The point here is that some folks are advocating posting this thread in Street Encounters as a permanent reminder of how dangerous street racing is - a sort of "Blood on the Highways" for the modern car enthusiast who clearly is not smart enough, or mature enough to avoid partaking in such behavior (this last characterization is my own, but I believe it rings true to the sentiment I'm picking up). However, these same people are in no position to judge those in street encounters, and certainly in no position to force their opinion on the people in that forum. Perhaps if we had a forum for all those folks who drive too fast for conditions, make unsignalled lane changes, pull out in front of someone in traffic, etc. (read: everyone on this site at some point) we could make a standard note at the top of every forum telling people how dangerous their actions are. Howevevr, no one is saying street racing is a good idea - no one.
I hope my sarcasm is not too thinly veiled here :-). The street encounters forum was singled out because its an obvious place to place blame and pass judgement on others. People there are immediately categorized and stereotyped by a portion of the membership who would probably be much happier if the forum didn't exist at all. That's a perfectly valid opinion and if they feel strongly enough, they should lobby for the forum's removal. But to have the forum and then have people who never frequent or post there foist permanent "scary reminder" threads on the regular users would remind me greatly of the U.S. goverment earning tax dollars on cigarettes while telling everyone how dangerous they are. Fortunately, and as I would have expected, the wise administration of this site has decided to not take this route. This is good. Now we're simply arguing for argument's sake. I wouldn't have even posted in this thread except that my hackles come up when people start implying they know what's best for someone else.
UL
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]
UL,
The point here is that some folks are advocating posting this thread in Street Encounters as a permanent reminder of how dangerous street racing is - a sort of "Blood on the Highways" for the modern car enthusiast who clearly is not smart enough, or mature enough to avoid partaking in such behavior (this last characterization is my own, but I believe it rings true to the sentiment I'm picking up). However, these same people are in no position to judge those in street encounters, and certainly in no position to force their opinion on the people in that forum. Perhaps if we had a forum for all those folks who drive too fast for conditions, make unsignalled lane changes, pull out in front of someone in traffic, etc. (read: everyone on this site at some point) we could make a standard note at the top of every forum telling people how dangerous their actions are. Howevevr, no one is saying street racing is a good idea - no one.
I hope my sarcasm is not too thinly veiled here :-). The street encounters forum was singled out because its an obvious place to place blame and pass judgement on others. People there are immediately categorized and stereotyped by a portion of the membership who would probably be much happier if the forum didn't exist at all. That's a perfectly valid opinion and if they feel strongly enough, they should lobby for the forum's removal. But to have the forum and then have people who never frequent or post there foist permanent "scary reminder" threads on the regular users would remind me greatly of the U.S. goverment earning tax dollars on cigarettes while telling everyone how dangerous they are. Fortunately, and as I would have expected, the wise administration of this site has decided to not take this route. This is good. Now we're simply arguing for argument's sake. I wouldn't have even posted in this thread except that my hackles come up when people start implying they know what's best for someone else.
UL
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]
UL,
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From: Bronxville/NY
well...i ve seen teens that drive F1 cars...so the age shit here is meaningless, experience is wat counts and we all learn at a different rate, i know people that have been driving for 20 years and can't change lanes correctly. Wat makes a driver a good driver is TO KNOW THEIR LIMITS hard to say what would cause an stook or any other car already at 80mph to spin, many things could have happened here, oil on street potholes, sand gravel, the list can go on and on...and like Russ and UL have said none of us, if any maybe 1% bought this car just on looks, we bought it cause the car can go really fast in a very short time, and fun to drive, when was the last time someone drank beer cause they were thirsty, any of you guys here SMOKE... that is just as bad as speeding in my eyes why cause...YOU ARE SLOWLY KILLING YOUR SELF, BUT WHATS WORSE YOU ARE KILLING OTHERS IN THE PROCESS...i can bet know one here thinks twice when they are about to light a cigar, cigarette or joint, some even do it in their house with their kids there getting them started with lung cancer before they even know wat it is, accidents happen and that is life, u can help and hope to prevent them, but guess wat you never will. I myself can say i ve done speeds that many of you will not dare go to, and that is not cool at all i know, but its something i chosed to do, is it wrong.... is just as wrong as anyone doing 60 on a 55mph but with more risk, risk i took knowingly, this guys took a risk and they paid or will pay for it. The fact of where they did it is the stupidity, there is a place and time for everything and this is a case of the wrong place for such events, if it happened in a track and they both died will you guys feel any better......no.... shit happens and sometimes when u tried to avoid it you get into diff worse shit. I might make no sense but my prayers goes out to the families who have to suffer this pain and loss...!
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From: Indy, In.
Wow, this thread is long! Maybe it will make some, if not all of you think the next time you do something stupid on the road. IMO, Russ is exactly right. If the car was as slow as a Civic, I would have saved some money and bought a Miata or an MR2. I also WILL NOT STREET RACE! I choose not to race on the streets simply because in almost all of the opportunities that I have had to street race I have not known the other driver. If I do not know them I do not know what their skill level is. I also do not know what level of risk they are willing to take. These variables allow entirely too much risk. When I drive above the posted limits I think of the consequences of my actions. Are there other drivers that could get in my way or not see me coming? Am I driving too fast for conditions? (Rain, snow, darkness, temperature... etc.) There are very few times when I get into an automobile and take unnecessary risks. I always consider how my actions will affect others on the road or, more importantly passengers in my car. I cannot tell you the last time I drove a car or truck and obeyed EVERY traffic law. But, I can tell you that I have never caused an accident or been involved in one that was my fault. I am not meaning to preach or lecture anyone here. I am also not trying to imply that I am a better driver. I am just saying that too many people refuse to consider that their actions behind the wheel affect EVERY OTHER PERSON ON THE ROAD.
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From: Land of the landeaus
Posting this thread in the Street Encounters forum is fine by me...I just don't think it belongs as a NOTE which for all intensive purposes, would be nothing more than a carefully veiled exercise in daily finger pointing. For those who don't street race or find threads of that nature entertaining, I assume you choose to exercise your opinion by not visiting our "congregation of misfits" and I respect that decision. However, thinking it's necessary to "remind" the rest of us of the dangers of such activities with a NOTE above all those interesting threads seems as blasphemous as visiting Vermont in October and bitching about the leaves. Besides...change comes more from managing the journey than from announcing the destination. In time, most of these guys will realize such actions aren't worth the risk of life and limb. One at a time....they'll come around.
Having said that however, I'm not going to endorse mag racing EVER!
Having said that however, I'm not going to endorse mag racing EVER!
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: West Mids.
No-one buys a car like the S2000 to drive like a granny. I suspect we all have our little 'street encounters' from time to time, but we don't necessarily post them. It's how far you are prepared to take those encounters, and to what degree you recognize your own limitations going in that's important. In the casual encounter, the limitations of the other person are almost certain to be an unknown quantity which makes the whole encounter even more foolhardy.
It isn't speed that kills, it's the sudden very sharp stop!
If anyone should know better than to get involved in this sort of stuff it's me. I must have attended hundreds of these tragedies where what's left of the participants has had to be literally scraped out of the car or off the road. Whilst I consider myself a responsible person and like to think I carry that attitude over into my driving, let me say straight away that I'm probably no different in the general attitude to my driving than most of the members here.
I could never have been a traffic officer issuing tickets for speeding. I like to look at myself in the mirror when I shave. I never had any problems with pursuing murderers rapists and burglars... I don't do that!
Are there traffic cops who don't exceed the limit when they drive their own cars off duty? I'm prepared to believe that there are,... although I've met plenty who did. They would usually just shrug and say something like " Well you do the job when you have to" I must be too complicated a person, I couldn't cope with that sort of hypocracy.
I digress a little. Speed in itself does not kill. Yes speeding in built-up populated areas is criminal. The street I live in has a 30 limit but it''s a narrow street with parked cars both sides of the street allowing the passage of one car in either direction at a time. To drive at 30 mph at most times is potentially homicidal but people do, and often exceed it considerably.
What every government in the world knows, what every cop knows, is that it isn't speed that kills. If I'm doing a totally illegal 120 mph on a motorway in the outside lane and some half-wit pulls out in front of with me with no signal, and without checking his mirror, there's no way you can lay the blame on speed alone for the cause of the ensuing carnage... yet that's what happens time and time again. In most places in the world speed limits are set to the level of the half-wit because it's the easiest option.
Exceeding the speed limit when conditions permit, and street racing can't even be considered as similar. For most of us on that empty twisty back road we know when it's time to ease off the throttle.. most of us I suspect, know when we're pushing our own limitations.
Street racing is a wholly different proposition which involves a will to WIN!! That will often overides all other considerations, and soon one or both of the participants are exceeding their own abilities, with neither willing to back off, despite the fact that their hearts are pounding like sledge hammers, their pulses are racing and they KNOW they are way past being in control of the situation.
Straight-line street racing doesn't even take any particular skill beyond the abilty to change gear at the appropriate time. The fact that the participants often don't even recognize that fact makes it even the more ludicrous. I don't think this should be 'stickied' at the top of the SR forum as it will achieve nothing but to antagonize those who post there who are going through an inevitable age-cycle thing that will end for them, when they gain a little discretion and.... not before.
Why some of those who have obviously gone through this phase but continue to pay lip service to it is a mystery to me!
It isn't speed that kills, it's the sudden very sharp stop!
If anyone should know better than to get involved in this sort of stuff it's me. I must have attended hundreds of these tragedies where what's left of the participants has had to be literally scraped out of the car or off the road. Whilst I consider myself a responsible person and like to think I carry that attitude over into my driving, let me say straight away that I'm probably no different in the general attitude to my driving than most of the members here.
I could never have been a traffic officer issuing tickets for speeding. I like to look at myself in the mirror when I shave. I never had any problems with pursuing murderers rapists and burglars... I don't do that!
Are there traffic cops who don't exceed the limit when they drive their own cars off duty? I'm prepared to believe that there are,... although I've met plenty who did. They would usually just shrug and say something like " Well you do the job when you have to" I must be too complicated a person, I couldn't cope with that sort of hypocracy.I digress a little. Speed in itself does not kill. Yes speeding in built-up populated areas is criminal. The street I live in has a 30 limit but it''s a narrow street with parked cars both sides of the street allowing the passage of one car in either direction at a time. To drive at 30 mph at most times is potentially homicidal but people do, and often exceed it considerably.
What every government in the world knows, what every cop knows, is that it isn't speed that kills. If I'm doing a totally illegal 120 mph on a motorway in the outside lane and some half-wit pulls out in front of with me with no signal, and without checking his mirror, there's no way you can lay the blame on speed alone for the cause of the ensuing carnage... yet that's what happens time and time again. In most places in the world speed limits are set to the level of the half-wit because it's the easiest option.
Exceeding the speed limit when conditions permit, and street racing can't even be considered as similar. For most of us on that empty twisty back road we know when it's time to ease off the throttle.. most of us I suspect, know when we're pushing our own limitations.
Street racing is a wholly different proposition which involves a will to WIN!! That will often overides all other considerations, and soon one or both of the participants are exceeding their own abilities, with neither willing to back off, despite the fact that their hearts are pounding like sledge hammers, their pulses are racing and they KNOW they are way past being in control of the situation.
Straight-line street racing doesn't even take any particular skill beyond the abilty to change gear at the appropriate time. The fact that the participants often don't even recognize that fact makes it even the more ludicrous. I don't think this should be 'stickied' at the top of the SR forum as it will achieve nothing but to antagonize those who post there who are going through an inevitable age-cycle thing that will end for them, when they gain a little discretion and.... not before.
Why some of those who have obviously gone through this phase but continue to pay lip service to it is a mystery to me!
Joined: May 2002
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From: Somewhere in NJ
I don't know if we will ever really know all the details. We all know the capabilities of the car, and would guess that most of us have driven at 80 mph with no worries, on a regular basis. In that sense, I agree with docofmind.
Jen - to your point, we also don't know how far the yellow had between when it 'lost control', or went around the scene, or whatever, and hit the pole. It may have slowed dramatically from its driving speed to the speed at impact (which I agree, doesn't look that bad). The news reported that police believe it was a ONE car accident, and the yellow was behind, then passed the scene.
The other interesting item is that the news interviewed a driver on the road. That driver was reported as 'RIGHT BEHIND THE ACCIDENT'. How fast was she going? - She described it as ahead of her, and didn't mention they came flying up past me...
Just alot of 'facts' that most of us aren't qualified to do anything but speculate about.
Condolences to anyone impacted by this tradegy.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YeloS2000ShowGrl
Jen - to your point, we also don't know how far the yellow had between when it 'lost control', or went around the scene, or whatever, and hit the pole. It may have slowed dramatically from its driving speed to the speed at impact (which I agree, doesn't look that bad). The news reported that police believe it was a ONE car accident, and the yellow was behind, then passed the scene.
The other interesting item is that the news interviewed a driver on the road. That driver was reported as 'RIGHT BEHIND THE ACCIDENT'. How fast was she going? - She described it as ahead of her, and didn't mention they came flying up past me...
Just alot of 'facts' that most of us aren't qualified to do anything but speculate about.
Condolences to anyone impacted by this tradegy.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YeloS2000ShowGrl
Originally posted by docofmind
You guys keep referring to the victims speed as 80mph. First of all, i believe that was the yellow cars speed. Not like it makes any difference, but i believe the silverstone was traveling well over 100.
Regardless, my condolences and prayers go out the families involved. [/
from the pictures the damage to the yellow s couldnt have been done from anything more than 50 at the most........theres just a littel damage there and not was 80mph worth. i dont believe that they were racing *my opinion* cause if they were than both of them wouldve been doing around the same speeds....hence more damage to the yellow car......
and also the comment about there should be an age limit to which car that you own????? i think that it plain stupid. i am 19 and i have owned my s since i was 18 and well yes there are some people my age that i wouldnt give this car to no way in hell they would abuse it, it all depends on the driver and the common sense. i dont think that somthing to this nature has anything to do with intellegence but with common sense......if theres traffic dont try to weave in and out, dont cut people off dont do 80!!! i have seen older individuals driving worse than i have seen teens drive.....age is only a number not an excuse........becuase your young your stupid right??? i dont agree with this statement one bit.....................
You guys keep referring to the victims speed as 80mph. First of all, i believe that was the yellow cars speed. Not like it makes any difference, but i believe the silverstone was traveling well over 100.
Regardless, my condolences and prayers go out the families involved. [/
from the pictures the damage to the yellow s couldnt have been done from anything more than 50 at the most........theres just a littel damage there and not was 80mph worth. i dont believe that they were racing *my opinion* cause if they were than both of them wouldve been doing around the same speeds....hence more damage to the yellow car......
and also the comment about there should be an age limit to which car that you own????? i think that it plain stupid. i am 19 and i have owned my s since i was 18 and well yes there are some people my age that i wouldnt give this car to no way in hell they would abuse it, it all depends on the driver and the common sense. i dont think that somthing to this nature has anything to do with intellegence but with common sense......if theres traffic dont try to weave in and out, dont cut people off dont do 80!!! i have seen older individuals driving worse than i have seen teens drive.....age is only a number not an excuse........becuase your young your stupid right??? i dont agree with this statement one bit.....................
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From: New Milford
Ultimate lurker I wont have to waste my time with you my opinion is my opinion how can I force anything to others unless they are robots so settle down there fella hope you dont get into an accident and see you on the news so be good and everyone safe holidays and Ultimate dont try to explain yourself or challenge it wont change my mind of how I feel on this matter be good everyone