[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
[B]

To put the post there as a permanent note (something the moderators have wisely, IMO, decided not to do) is inappropriate, judgemental and hypocritical unless anyone here can say they've never broken the speed limit.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by F1s2000
[B]Just because you like to speed doesn't make it justifiable. Everyone has done it

 

Well, another thread goes to the yo-yos...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ [B]
....
And you guys who after every street race fatality constantly write, "take it to a road course," etc.

 

I'm not really sure what that means, but I'll take a guess and say you think this thread has strayed into something arbitrary. That would be untrue. There are those who would have us believe that street racing and speeding are analogous, I take offense to that. This thread was originally and justifiably posted to warn of the dangers of street racing. Let's not lose sight of that fact.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by djohnston
[B]Ya know I can't just leave this one alone, F1s2000 your comments are so simplistic and short-sighted that I feel compelled to respond further to them.

 

There is a big difference between "Speeding" and "Street Racing".

When I learned to drive the speed limits were 65mph and the cars had drum brakes, bias ply (non-radial) tires, and no seat belts. They did not even remotely perform as well in handling and braking as even the most mundane of cars today. The speed limits then were set so even the lowest common denominator driver could handle one of those boats on those roads and still be in control.

Those same roads today are 55mph and we are driving cars that are made to be able to cruise the Autobahn at triple digit speeds in safety. Yet if I drive this starship of an automobile at the same speed and on the same road my Mother drove her 48 Buick I would be "speeding". Logic tells us that I can drive my S2000 much faster than a 48 Buick and still stop quicker and handle better in any situation. Driving it 10mph SLOWER is just plain stupid.

Obviously almost everyone in the Country agrees with that and those of us that were around when the speed limits were changed know it was a political ploy and a stupid one at that. In many parts of the Country (though NOT Long Island) the speed limits have been raised back to 65mph.

Even 65mph is slow to most drivers in todays cars and they vote with their right foot and travel at least 10mph faster than that everywhere you go. Driving on an interstate (in the USA) doing the speed limit will more likely get you killed than if you were just to maintain the average speed of the traffic. It is the speed differential that is dangerous.

Obviously if one was to hit a stationary object at twice the speed as someone else all things being equal, the faster collision would be more dangerous. So what does that prove? Maybe we should set the speed limits to 25mph and make everyone safer?

The point is that depending on your skill and experience, the capabilities of your automobile, the road and the conditions, there is a speed that is comfortable and safe for you. That speed usually has nothing to do with the arbitrary posted legal limit. So for the most part people (almost everyone) SPEED.

Street racing is another matter. It is not just two cars both "speeding" at a rate comfortable to them both. It is an ego driven challenge that takes the speeds past where a normal rational person would have felt comfortable under those same conditions driving alone. When the infamous Red Mist takes over safety for yourself and those around you takes a back seat.

Are there places to street race that are safer than others? Of course there are. Is it still more dangerous than racing at a real track? Yes and by quite a bit. There are no ambulances and safety crews. Hell most often I doubt if anyone even has a fire extinguisher. Everything is usually fine until someone or something fu@ks up. Then we hear all the crying about how great a tragedy it is.

Racing through a residential area is criminal. Racing on a deserted back road where only the participants have a chance of hurting themselves (and you really can never be SURE of that) is a calculated risk but it at least shows SOME awareness of responsibility.

 

Bieg,

Great post . You completely captured the essence of this issue.

 

All I can say driving is a privlage not a right and speeding is only for the track and dont tell me racing and speeding on streets beyond posted speed limits is an excuse thats why we have laws and rules and cops and tickets.......I really dont feel bad this is a foolish thing these people did and luckily there were not more involved or hurt or even more deaths...The S2000 is a great car dont abuse its capabilities learn how do drive it experience goes a long way...By the way if anyone wants to flame me for my post I used to work in a Emergency Room if you saw what I have seen in car accident victims and how and why it happens you would feel the same way I do.... Be smart dont be stupid thats all I can say look at those pictures again really hard!!!!!!!!!!!! That could be you speeding and Racing at 80 mph showing off whatever!!!! My condolences to the famillies and to the S2000s that were destroyed what a fine automoblile it is...And dont compare F1 racing to the streets of Philly please what an idiot you are.....Cars dont cause accidents people cause accidents and when someone dies its all over you cant bring them back!!!!!

 

I agree. In fact, I have no problem with your lengthy distinctions. BTW, the speed limits were 70 - 75 in my formative years, and I, like many, never accepted the lower limits. But, what does that have to do with my original question?
Assuming your answer was directed there? I was questioning UL's statement... and asked him to explain to me how street racing is not speeding -- in reference to his early statement that "While street racing is not speeding,...". I can't imagine many circumstances where people are street racing without speeding.