Went from AP1 to AP2v2, some thoughts
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 2
From: North SF Bay, CA
This is all getting rather ridiculous. I only thought my experience was interesting because few people go from AP1 to AP2. They are more alike than different. I actually don't care what anyone thinks and I am thrilled that we all seem to love the cars we paid for with our own money. I prefer my AP2. I understand the point that the AP1 is a purer version of what Honda intended, which is broadly true of every first version of a new platform. The AP2 is an adjustment of the car to market reality. It is hands down a better car, but is it further from Shigeru's vision? Probably. Stock AP1s are great. Modified AP1s are not. They are so pure that even lowering the car destroys the suspension geometry, which is why so many AP1s have a reputation for 'snap oversteer'.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
Well said.
Sadly, every AP1-AP2 thread ends up the same way....
I'm surprised this one continued so far without getting the administrator lockdown.
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 82,468
Likes: 1,193
The only people who have anything real to say about the AP1 vs AP2 debate are those who have owned both.
There were several variations with body, drivetrain and chassis updates to the AP1 that the North American market never got because of the switch to the F22C motor which the rest of the world did. I think it would be interesting if someone in Europe where who has experience with an early AP1 as well as a later model 08-09 AP1 with DBW offer their thoughts.
There were several variations with body, drivetrain and chassis updates to the AP1 that the North American market never got because of the switch to the F22C motor which the rest of the world did. I think it would be interesting if someone in Europe where who has experience with an early AP1 as well as a later model 08-09 AP1 with DBW offer their thoughts.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 893
Likes: 12
Dude you make it seem like the F20 and F22 are worlds apart. Take away the tach and most people probably can't tell a difference. Like I said, if the AP1 was such a magical creature, how come the value isn't skyrocketing.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 90
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That being said, I'm looking forward to getting my AP1 flywheel and clutch slave cylinder in my 08 AP2 to go with my Flashpro and my HFC.....
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Lazyrider69' timestamp='1457211490' post='23900069
My issue is more the minimizing of "where you came from" so to speak rather than just appreciating the history and legacy of the car. I'm sorry, but the F20c is indeed special..... The f22c lost more than just an extra 1000 rpms.... it kind of lost its identity....
Then why was it chosen by Car and Driver as the the Greatest NA engine of all time a few months ago????
16 years after it first was introduced and it is still being discussed and chosen over McClaren and Ferrari engines...... C'mon dude... you gotta give it props...
http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook...es-of-all-time
Community Organizer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,599
Likes: 79
From: The 604
This is all getting rather ridiculous. I only thought my experience was interesting because few people go from AP1 to AP2. They are more alike than different. I actually don't care what anyone thinks and I am thrilled that we all seem to love the cars we paid for with our own money. I prefer my AP2. I understand the point that the AP1 is a purer version of what Honda intended, which is broadly true of every first version of a new platform. The AP2 is an adjustment of the car to market reality. It is hands down a better car, but is it further from Shigeru's vision? Probably. Stock AP1s are great. Modified AP1s are not. They are so pure that even lowering the car destroys the suspension geometry, which is why so many AP1s have a reputation for 'snap oversteer'.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
If the F20C was the creme de la creme, Uehara likely could've dropped it into the CR but he didn't so there you have it!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 292
Likes: 5
From: PA
I can't be as "passionate" as others on this forum about the differences between an AP1 and an AP2. It only slightly interests me. When I buy a new roadster without ever owning an AP2, I won't feel that I missed out on anything.
My car is still like new after 14 years, and selling it seem so far away. I'm more interested hearing the experiences of anyone moving from an S2000 to the 2016 Miata.
My car is still like new after 14 years, and selling it seem so far away. I'm more interested hearing the experiences of anyone moving from an S2000 to the 2016 Miata.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by osunick' timestamp='1457221445' post='23900186
This is all getting rather ridiculous. I only thought my experience was interesting because few people go from AP1 to AP2. They are more alike than different. I actually don't care what anyone thinks and I am thrilled that we all seem to love the cars we paid for with our own money. I prefer my AP2. I understand the point that the AP1 is a purer version of what Honda intended, which is broadly true of every first version of a new platform. The AP2 is an adjustment of the car to market reality. It is hands down a better car, but is it further from Shigeru's vision? Probably. Stock AP1s are great. Modified AP1s are not. They are so pure that even lowering the car destroys the suspension geometry, which is why so many AP1s have a reputation for 'snap oversteer'.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
I think Lazyrider69 made his position clear, and we don't have to agree with him, nor does he have to agree with us. If I had known this would get this insane, I wouldn't have started the thread.
If the F20C was the creme de la creme, Uehara likely could've dropped it into the CR but he didn't so there you have it!Man O Man some of you guys are so myopic..
Shigeru's "VISION" did end with the f20c... It was called the Ultimate GT Edition if you didn't know.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...timate-edition
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-rev...0-2009-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wpZOrPAon0
It was essentially the US market's whining about more torque that made Honda adapt F22c engine for us here..... If Honda wasn't worried about appeasing its biggest market, they'd have of left engine alone like they did everywhere else....
and PLEASE explain to me why the F20c made Car and Driver Greatest N/A Engine of all time then if it isn't the crème de la creme??? And that wasn't only time it was considered that as well...
http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook...es-of-all-time
"so there you have it" as you stated.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 927
Likes: 35
From: ATL, GA
Originally Posted by zdave87' timestamp='1457234824' post='23900343
I owned an AP1 and currently own an 07 AP2. Hands down the AP2 is the better car.
That being said, I'm looking forward to getting my AP1 flywheel and clutch slave cylinder in my 08 AP2 to go with my Flashpro and my HFC.....
Hey this Lazy guy makes useless posts and lives in the past glory and accolades of the AP1. Why he wastes his time and the times of others making these useless posts I dont know. I remember him from another thread a while back. Go out and enjoy the driving the s2000 hard instead of your keyboard.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 331
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Originally Posted by dc24me' timestamp='1457244241' post='23900389
[quote name='zdave87' timestamp='1457234824' post='23900343']
I owned an AP1 and currently own an 07 AP2. Hands down the AP2 is the better car.
I owned an AP1 and currently own an 07 AP2. Hands down the AP2 is the better car.
That being said, I'm looking forward to getting my AP1 flywheel and clutch slave cylinder in my 08 AP2 to go with my Flashpro and my HFC.....
Hey this Lazy guy makes useless posts and lives in the past glory and accolades of the AP1. Why he wastes his time and the times of others making these useless posts I dont know. I remember him from another thread a while back. Go out and enjoy the driving the s2000 hard instead of your keyboard.
[/quote]
I don't usually start these AP2 vs Ap1 threads. I respond to what I feel like and whether some like it or not... present facts as best I can.... I never debate anything other than the change in engines here in US.... all other tweaks I understand...