Went from AP1 to AP2v2, some thoughts
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2012
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The ESSENCE of what the s2000 is and how it was realized is based on it being driven in anger....... That is what set it apart from all other cars and makes the F20c one of the best engines ever produced...... The S2000 was a BIG DEAL when it was first released..... From an automotive perspective but also from an engineering one as well.
The f20C won the prestigious German Engine of the Year Award 4 years running 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and Car and Driver recently named it the Greatest N/A Engine of all times no matter what car cost......
Great car in any year you can buy.... but no subsequent incarnations garnered the attention and excitement like the original..... But this is coming from an old fart purist.....
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 323
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From: NJ
Cars usually improve with age; kinks get worked out. I have owned both an ap2 and now ap1. Ap2 was a dd and ap1 is a weekend toy. Both could be used for either but I find the ap1 a little more exciting to drive.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 3
From: McKinney, TX
I've owned all "3" versions ('01, 04, & '08):
The '01 was the most fun to drift around corners and u-turns, and had biggest band of excitement in the engine, & the quickest steering. It tempted me into thrashing it constantly
The '04 felt quicker around town, but the "fun zone" on the engine shrank. The steering was slower, the clutch was softer, and the back end didn't drift as quickly or easily as the '01. But yes, it had a bit more torque.
The '08 is the most comfortable from a daily perspective, and the added glove "compartment" has been useful. But the DBW system has already experienced a pedal position sensor failure, and I often find myself turning off the VSA while diving into corners under braking just before heel-toe downshifting - all so I can enjoy the exit. I hate that thing and hate that I have to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. I lost an autocross one day because I had to turn my car off off between runs and forgot to turn that stupid thing off. I'm hoping with the Flashpro I just kicked up I can permanently disable it, as well as lower vtec to get my full fun zone back. I've already installed an ap1 flywheel and removed the CDV, and a stiffer front Swaybar has returned ap1-like steering feel.
The '01 was the most fun to drift around corners and u-turns, and had biggest band of excitement in the engine, & the quickest steering. It tempted me into thrashing it constantly
The '04 felt quicker around town, but the "fun zone" on the engine shrank. The steering was slower, the clutch was softer, and the back end didn't drift as quickly or easily as the '01. But yes, it had a bit more torque.
The '08 is the most comfortable from a daily perspective, and the added glove "compartment" has been useful. But the DBW system has already experienced a pedal position sensor failure, and I often find myself turning off the VSA while diving into corners under braking just before heel-toe downshifting - all so I can enjoy the exit. I hate that thing and hate that I have to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. I lost an autocross one day because I had to turn my car off off between runs and forgot to turn that stupid thing off. I'm hoping with the Flashpro I just kicked up I can permanently disable it, as well as lower vtec to get my full fun zone back
. I've already installed an ap1 flywheel and removed the CDV, and a stiffer front Swaybar has returned ap1-like steering feel.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 2
From: North SF Bay, CA
I've owned all "3" versions ('01, 04, & '08):
The '01 was the most fun to drift around corners and u-turns, and had biggest band of excitement in the engine, & the quickest steering. It tempted me into thrashing it constantly
The '04 felt quicker around town, but the "fun zone" on the engine shrank. The steering was slower, the clutch was softer, and the back end didn't drift as quickly or easily as the '01. But yes, it had a bit more torque.
The '08 is the most comfortable from a daily perspective, and the added glove "compartment" has been useful. But the DBW system has already experienced a pedal position sensor failure, and I often find myself turning off the VSA while diving into corners under braking just before heel-toe downshifting - all so I can enjoy the exit. I hate that thing and hate that I have to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. I lost an autocross one day because I had to turn my car off off between runs and forgot to turn that stupid thing off. I'm hoping with the Flashpro I just kicked up I can permanently disable it, as well as lower vtec to get my full fun zone back. I've already installed an ap1 flywheel and removed the CDV, and a stiffer front Swaybar has returned ap1-like steering feel.
The '01 was the most fun to drift around corners and u-turns, and had biggest band of excitement in the engine, & the quickest steering. It tempted me into thrashing it constantly
The '04 felt quicker around town, but the "fun zone" on the engine shrank. The steering was slower, the clutch was softer, and the back end didn't drift as quickly or easily as the '01. But yes, it had a bit more torque.
The '08 is the most comfortable from a daily perspective, and the added glove "compartment" has been useful. But the DBW system has already experienced a pedal position sensor failure, and I often find myself turning off the VSA while diving into corners under braking just before heel-toe downshifting - all so I can enjoy the exit. I hate that thing and hate that I have to remember to turn it off every time I start the car. I lost an autocross one day because I had to turn my car off off between runs and forgot to turn that stupid thing off. I'm hoping with the Flashpro I just kicked up I can permanently disable it, as well as lower vtec to get my full fun zone back
. I've already installed an ap1 flywheel and removed the CDV, and a stiffer front Swaybar has returned ap1-like steering feel.
Community Organizer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,171
Likes: 53
From: Tucson, AZ
If he's autocrossing a fair amount, my money would be on the fact that he can use Flashpro. STR rules limit your options to tune if using an '05 and under car.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 36,017
Likes: 226
From: Queen City, NC
Honda made over 2,000 changes to update the car - why not buy the updated model and revert a few things rather than miss out on the majority of the updates?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: Palo Alto, CA
So... some good news and bad news.
Good news is that my AP1 sold yesterday to a very happy new owner. During the PPI process it turned out the Greddy EMU that the PO had installed was killing power. So my car didn't drive as well as a stock AP1. It was making about 175 whp on a dynapack where stock AP1's make 190-200. After removing the EMU car made 193 hp and drove much better with better top gear acceleration.
The bad news is I had the AP2 inspected as well and it turns out that two cylinders had bad compression but were just below the threshold that would trigger a CEL. So I had them rebuild the head and car dynos at 215, or a fair bit above a standard AP2 which I'm told dynos between 200-210 whp. Car drives much better, though I wish I had held out for one with lower miles. C'est la vie I guess.
-n.
Good news is that my AP1 sold yesterday to a very happy new owner. During the PPI process it turned out the Greddy EMU that the PO had installed was killing power. So my car didn't drive as well as a stock AP1. It was making about 175 whp on a dynapack where stock AP1's make 190-200. After removing the EMU car made 193 hp and drove much better with better top gear acceleration.
The bad news is I had the AP2 inspected as well and it turns out that two cylinders had bad compression but were just below the threshold that would trigger a CEL. So I had them rebuild the head and car dynos at 215, or a fair bit above a standard AP2 which I'm told dynos between 200-210 whp. Car drives much better, though I wish I had held out for one with lower miles. C'est la vie I guess.
-n.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,840
Likes: 1
From: Fort Polk, LA
I've owned an 01 and now a 05 and I still prefer the AP1. I do however like the torque and the interior/exterior from the AP2.
The perfect S2000 is the AP2 but keep the 9k redline but also have the torque from the ap2. Transmission wise, keep it how it is but take out the CDV and have the AP1 flywheel. For the suspension, I would have the AP1 front suspension but have AP2 rear suspension.
The perfect S2000 is the AP2 but keep the 9k redline but also have the torque from the ap2. Transmission wise, keep it how it is but take out the CDV and have the AP1 flywheel. For the suspension, I would have the AP1 front suspension but have AP2 rear suspension.
