Why is it that there are so many...
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From: West Mids.
Just in defence of the MR2 which is one of my all time favourite, cars
.. I don't think it's tail happy, it's a great handling very underrated car IMHO. The problem is when you do lose it violently the problem is compounded by the weight of that 'mid engine', the weight of which is in reality, over the back axle. This requires an even greater correction than you would normally make resulting in the back end swinging in the opposite direction and so on gaining momentum each time... with each correction ........the 'pendelum effect'.
Often, if you don't catch it first time... you're only delaying the inevitable, assuming you reacted quickly enough in the first place.
.. I don't think it's tail happy, it's a great handling very underrated car IMHO. The problem is when you do lose it violently the problem is compounded by the weight of that 'mid engine', the weight of which is in reality, over the back axle. This requires an even greater correction than you would normally make resulting in the back end swinging in the opposite direction and so on gaining momentum each time... with each correction ........the 'pendelum effect'.Often, if you don't catch it first time... you're only delaying the inevitable, assuming you reacted quickly enough in the first place.
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From: :spam:u
Originally posted by jschmidt
How do you know?
How do you know?
There is a fairly narrow range where the S02s are on the money. Too low (like 28) and they feel kind of squirmy, too high (like 36) and they feel way less grippy. 4 pounds either way and the tires feel like garbage. So now you see why you need a good gauge and you need to check your tires often.
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From: San Diego
This past weekend, I drove from San Francisco to Santa Barbara in rain, frequently heavy, on Route 1. On a couple of occasions, I felt the car getting a little squirrely on me and I was driving fairly conservatively. Not too conservatively, apparently, because no one ever caught up to me and I passed a number of cars.
My point being that either knowing the limits or respecting the fact that you may not (my case) works as well.
I run my tires at 35 psi all around all the time. Some much better and more experienced autox drivers than I have said that the car's suspension feels well balanced. They have also logged some excellent times in my car. This has been with both the Kumhos and the S02s, although obviously the Kumhos have more grip.
And of course I use a professional, calibrated pressure gauge.
cal
My point being that either knowing the limits or respecting the fact that you may not (my case) works as well.
I run my tires at 35 psi all around all the time. Some much better and more experienced autox drivers than I have said that the car's suspension feels well balanced. They have also logged some excellent times in my car. This has been with both the Kumhos and the S02s, although obviously the Kumhos have more grip.
And of course I use a professional, calibrated pressure gauge.
cal
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From: Portland
Guys, interesting thread. This is my first post on this board although I occasionally lurk here and find many of the discussions quite interesting.
I am a BMW owner, who has owned an E46 323, an E36 M3 and my current bimmer, an E39 540/6 speed with some mods. I am very interested in getting an S2000 as a fair weather play car because of its exceptional handling dynamics and no compromise performance. I have driven several S2000's including a lenghty test drive on a wet day in the 40s through twisty mountain roads with occasional patches of gravel. Very challenging conditions to put it mildly.
My conclusion following that drive--in which I experienced several controllable tail out incidents--was that this car seems to handle a lot like many of the off road motorcycles I used to race. By that I mean that you can count on the front end sticking but you need to be ready to apply opposite lock steering at any time because the back end will get loose. In that regard, it is unlike any road car that I have ever driven.
The conditions on that particular day were such that I did not push the car overly hard. I never even approached 70 mph through any of the corners. My cornering speeds were far lower.
I am interested in knowing whether the people involved in shunts were aware of the tendency of these cars to oversteer and were taken unaware when it happened. Or, were they driving like people drive most cars, with an expectation that the front end will plow well before ovesteer takes place.
Does anyone have comments about many of the magazine reports, where it is generally stated that the S2000 is an awesome performance car but the driver needs to be attentive or risk being bitten by the oversteer bug. These reports are in stark contrast to those concerning the Boxster S, which seems to be universally praised as a wonderful performance car that is easy and quite intuitive at speed, very much how I describe the E36 M3.
I am a BMW owner, who has owned an E46 323, an E36 M3 and my current bimmer, an E39 540/6 speed with some mods. I am very interested in getting an S2000 as a fair weather play car because of its exceptional handling dynamics and no compromise performance. I have driven several S2000's including a lenghty test drive on a wet day in the 40s through twisty mountain roads with occasional patches of gravel. Very challenging conditions to put it mildly.
My conclusion following that drive--in which I experienced several controllable tail out incidents--was that this car seems to handle a lot like many of the off road motorcycles I used to race. By that I mean that you can count on the front end sticking but you need to be ready to apply opposite lock steering at any time because the back end will get loose. In that regard, it is unlike any road car that I have ever driven.
The conditions on that particular day were such that I did not push the car overly hard. I never even approached 70 mph through any of the corners. My cornering speeds were far lower.
I am interested in knowing whether the people involved in shunts were aware of the tendency of these cars to oversteer and were taken unaware when it happened. Or, were they driving like people drive most cars, with an expectation that the front end will plow well before ovesteer takes place.
Does anyone have comments about many of the magazine reports, where it is generally stated that the S2000 is an awesome performance car but the driver needs to be attentive or risk being bitten by the oversteer bug. These reports are in stark contrast to those concerning the Boxster S, which seems to be universally praised as a wonderful performance car that is easy and quite intuitive at speed, very much how I describe the E36 M3.
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From: Austin
Insider,
Yes yes yes! Finally another BMW owner pinpointed my exact meaning of the original thread... is it because you have owned BMWs before, and now, so that you can understand what I mean? The following is what I tried to say but didn't know how to, you took the words right out of my mouth, or errr keyboard.
--------------------------------
These reports are in stark contrast to those concerning the Boxster S, which seems to be universally praised as a wonderful performance car that is easy and quite intuitive at speed, very much how I describe the E36 M3.
--------------------------------
I mean I rarely heard of Porsche Boxsters or M3s on their respective several forums say "Went through rain, or something, at high speed and hit the center divider." I have a '95 325i, granted it's not a sports car and I run high performance all-season tires, the P7000, I have never experienced this even at high speed through heavy storm. Now that I read about these incidents, I will slow down on rainy days.
This is the precise reason why I started this thred... to see IF there are ways to prevent this from happening, from a MACHINE point of view, NOT driver's point of view. From what I can see, it would be best to start from the contact patch, aka Tires. Now here is an item for interesting, flameless debate.... So what if the SO2s came stock on the S2000? The SO2s are not the ONLY performanced tire.. at the suggestion of putting on super high performance all season tires, someone even suggested that I go buy a Civic for that purpose....
I'd also like to throw this out at the crowd... a comment from Road & Track's Ultimate Roadster Shootout between the M Roadster, Porsche Boxster S, S2000, and the Audi TT.
Here is what the test driver wrote...
"But beware: There's a bit of lateral compliance to the rear suspension, so the rear end follows the front by half a heartbeat in taking a set. It's predictable behavior, one that requires a mental footnote in hard street driving but an actual flick of opposite lock on the racetrack. Demanding, yes, but extremely quick, as the S2000 revels in carrying speed through the corners. I was always thrilled after lapping the S2000, yet also a little relieved to step into the security of, say, the Boxster ur Audi."
Having said what I said, or typed, I'd like to remind all of ya that I truely like the S2000 for the reasons you guys love the S2000 and do plan on getting one, even if it was the daily driver. So, I'm not set out to undermine the S2000, or create flames, like say... for example... an Altima owner coming over here and saying "You guys suck, I dragged 1000 S2000 and kicked all their arses." I am bring up an issue to be discussed, so point ur attention to the subject, not the person. Much like what Bieg said before.
Thanks you guys, and drive safely.
Jimmy
Yes yes yes! Finally another BMW owner pinpointed my exact meaning of the original thread... is it because you have owned BMWs before, and now, so that you can understand what I mean? The following is what I tried to say but didn't know how to, you took the words right out of my mouth, or errr keyboard.
--------------------------------
These reports are in stark contrast to those concerning the Boxster S, which seems to be universally praised as a wonderful performance car that is easy and quite intuitive at speed, very much how I describe the E36 M3.
--------------------------------
I mean I rarely heard of Porsche Boxsters or M3s on their respective several forums say "Went through rain, or something, at high speed and hit the center divider." I have a '95 325i, granted it's not a sports car and I run high performance all-season tires, the P7000, I have never experienced this even at high speed through heavy storm. Now that I read about these incidents, I will slow down on rainy days.
This is the precise reason why I started this thred... to see IF there are ways to prevent this from happening, from a MACHINE point of view, NOT driver's point of view. From what I can see, it would be best to start from the contact patch, aka Tires. Now here is an item for interesting, flameless debate.... So what if the SO2s came stock on the S2000? The SO2s are not the ONLY performanced tire.. at the suggestion of putting on super high performance all season tires, someone even suggested that I go buy a Civic for that purpose....
I'd also like to throw this out at the crowd... a comment from Road & Track's Ultimate Roadster Shootout between the M Roadster, Porsche Boxster S, S2000, and the Audi TT.
Here is what the test driver wrote...
"But beware: There's a bit of lateral compliance to the rear suspension, so the rear end follows the front by half a heartbeat in taking a set. It's predictable behavior, one that requires a mental footnote in hard street driving but an actual flick of opposite lock on the racetrack. Demanding, yes, but extremely quick, as the S2000 revels in carrying speed through the corners. I was always thrilled after lapping the S2000, yet also a little relieved to step into the security of, say, the Boxster ur Audi."
Having said what I said, or typed, I'd like to remind all of ya that I truely like the S2000 for the reasons you guys love the S2000 and do plan on getting one, even if it was the daily driver. So, I'm not set out to undermine the S2000, or create flames, like say... for example... an Altima owner coming over here and saying "You guys suck, I dragged 1000 S2000 and kicked all their arses." I am bring up an issue to be discussed, so point ur attention to the subject, not the person. Much like what Bieg said before.
Thanks you guys, and drive safely.
Jimmy