1st 2.5L Inlinepro Stroker Kit
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From: Sunnyvale
Originally Posted by kane.s2k,Oct 25 2004, 05:20 AM
I'm only gonna pick on this part. Please explain how running in the 'closed loop' high load range is bad.
The only reason other than to get a timing map to suit the engine perfectly and for performance. The stock ECU in my guess would possibly pull a couple degrees of timing from the piston rubbing up and down the sleeves scrapping the two sides. It might see that as knock. Other than that should be normal. I'd probably get a e-manage instead just to get the fuel down on a larger map. Timing controls for your car with the e-manage would be useless because of its large increments and the +/-1 degree error it has.
The only reason other than to get a timing map to suit the engine perfectly and for performance. The stock ECU in my guess would possibly pull a couple degrees of timing from the piston rubbing up and down the sleeves scrapping the two sides. It might see that as knock. Other than that should be normal. I'd probably get a e-manage instead just to get the fuel down on a larger map. Timing controls for your car with the e-manage would be useless because of its large increments and the +/-1 degree error it has.
In closed loop the car is always going to be correcting back to near stoich or WAY leaner than is safe for power. obviously you don't want to be running the car at 14.4:1 a/f under heavy load.
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Yes I did.
14.4:1 is way too lean under power. closed loop doesn't allow you to run richer than that.
not to mention that short term fuel trims become long term fuel trims which get applied to open loop! that's how you "tune away" your changes.
14.4:1 is way too lean under power. closed loop doesn't allow you to run richer than that.
not to mention that short term fuel trims become long term fuel trims which get applied to open loop! that's how you "tune away" your changes.
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From: NOVA/Rye,NY/Tempe AZ
to the stock ecu, not really for my purposes though but that shouuld be expected. Yea i knew the AFC set up ont he car wasnt the greatest it was done in front of me when i picked up the car in all of 15 mins. The AFC is only TEMPORARY though so its only there short term to run the car while i break it inhopefully the car will go in tommorow or weds day i'm at 950mi finally.
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From: MIAMI
Originally Posted by white_S2000@16,Oct 25 2004, 11:10 PM
to the stock ecu, not really for my purposes though but that shouuld be expected. Yea i knew the AFC set up ont he car wasnt the greatest it was done in front of me when i picked up the car in all of 15 mins. The AFC is only TEMPORARY though so its only there short term to run the car while i break it inhopefully the car will go in tommorow or weds day i'm at 950mi finally.
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[QUOTE=double11,Oct 25 2004, 08:44 AM] The first thing I notice on that dyno plot is there is very little difference between the dyno pulls while the a/f is widely different, that and they didn't plot the torque curve for ya..
Are there any results posted yet? If not, how about changing the title of the thread. 
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From: DFW, TX
Originally Posted by gernby,Oct 25 2004, 03:01 PM
"They" didn't plot anything for me. The plots I posted are the ones that I put together using the DynoJet Runviewer. The torque curve is no more informative than the HP curve, since there is a direct mathematical correlation between them (HP = torque * RPM / 5200). Note: I realize that the 5200 is not quite exact, but I always forget the last 2 digits.
The reason why the fuel tuning doesn't make that much of a difference is because the '02 OEM ECU really is pretty damn good. There just isn't that much to be gained from tuning (fuel or timing) on a nearly stock motor. That said, I think an additional 6 HP from 6300 to redline is pretty damn good considering that is above what I could get with the VAFC. I suspect that the OEM ECU is giving more agressive timing as a result of more consistant AFRs. For example, with the VAFC, I was probably getting some occasional detonation when the AFR went above 14:1 after VTEC. This probably caused the ECU to back off timing across the whole range.
I can't think of any "degree" that your statement about 13.5 vs 10 not making a difference in power. An AFR of 10 would cause the plugs to foul out very quickly, and no amount of ignition timing would compensate for it.
I considered adding timing control into my fuel controller, but really didn't feal comfortable with taking that away from the OEM ECU. Timing is something that I think is dangerous to play with, unless it is to retard timing for safety purposes (FI, increased compression ratio, etc.).
The reason why the fuel tuning doesn't make that much of a difference is because the '02 OEM ECU really is pretty damn good. There just isn't that much to be gained from tuning (fuel or timing) on a nearly stock motor. That said, I think an additional 6 HP from 6300 to redline is pretty damn good considering that is above what I could get with the VAFC. I suspect that the OEM ECU is giving more agressive timing as a result of more consistant AFRs. For example, with the VAFC, I was probably getting some occasional detonation when the AFR went above 14:1 after VTEC. This probably caused the ECU to back off timing across the whole range.
I can't think of any "degree" that your statement about 13.5 vs 10 not making a difference in power. An AFR of 10 would cause the plugs to foul out very quickly, and no amount of ignition timing would compensate for it.
I considered adding timing control into my fuel controller, but really didn't feal comfortable with taking that away from the OEM ECU. Timing is something that I think is dangerous to play with, unless it is to retard timing for safety purposes (FI, increased compression ratio, etc.).
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From: NOVA/Rye,NY/Tempe AZ
the motor is at 1010miles! The car gets dropped off at inline thursday night and friday the E-Manage gets installed then the car will be dynoed on fri afternoon. the car has been runing well ive been taking it up to five grand and it feels real nice. The tourque keeps puting me into little slides on the streets, its fun. It was a nice day ysterday and i took the car through some back roads it feels great even thogh i still cant use VTEC. For tose of you wanting dyno graphs and videos they are coming sooner then you think hopefully i will have them up friday night. We decided to go with teh e-manage because we feel its the best for the job right now. Jhon feels the car only really needs fuel adjustment now and the ignition doesnt need to be meesed with now. The guys at Hondata will make us a prototype but its going to cost a pretty penny because of the three new sensors you need althoguh the price is still on par with the EMS, maybe down the road i may look into it agian but more then likely the first person to run the hodata will be soem one with FI.