Another Tranny Fluid Question
01-21-2006, 06:47 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Another Tranny Fluid Question
Ok, I have a friend with a Scion TC...typical with the TC is a 1-2 grind when cold...saying around freezing temps or at least 40's when its warm its not really a problem.
Basically I am recommending him to use GM Synchromesh fluid in the tranny to try and rid the problem. Or at least help it. However I have some questions...would the GM fluid be a good fluid for the car? A typical replacement fluid is Redline 75-90 or Redline MT90. However I personally don't care for redline as I haven't had the best luck with it but perhaps it would be better for him. I'm basically concerned with the weights of the GM fluid and whether or not he should get the friction modified stuff, like we do if he did go with that. The redline fluid also doesn't completely fix the problem however it does help. I also though of BG Synchroshift which I used in my Eclipse but this is much more expensive then the other two and again I'm not sure if it is good for his car.
Basically I'm trying to base this off the fact that since Redline MT90 can and is used in there tranny's along with 75-90 (more of a gear oil then tranny oil) that GM is probably fine for him as we, S2k'ers, use MT90 in our tranny's, along with GM, Honda MTF, and other fluids.
Thanks for replys and help...
Eric
Basically I am recommending him to use GM Synchromesh fluid in the tranny to try and rid the problem. Or at least help it. However I have some questions...would the GM fluid be a good fluid for the car? A typical replacement fluid is Redline 75-90 or Redline MT90. However I personally don't care for redline as I haven't had the best luck with it but perhaps it would be better for him. I'm basically concerned with the weights of the GM fluid and whether or not he should get the friction modified stuff, like we do if he did go with that. The redline fluid also doesn't completely fix the problem however it does help. I also though of BG Synchroshift which I used in my Eclipse but this is much more expensive then the other two and again I'm not sure if it is good for his car.
Basically I'm trying to base this off the fact that since Redline MT90 can and is used in there tranny's along with 75-90 (more of a gear oil then tranny oil) that GM is probably fine for him as we, S2k'ers, use MT90 in our tranny's, along with GM, Honda MTF, and other fluids.
Thanks for replys and help...
Eric
01-21-2006, 08:21 PM
#3
Thread Starter
ya, I knew about penzoil...its supposed to be decent, it is something else he can try. Basically, is the GM/penzoil/bg compatible? I don't see why it wouldn't be...but looking for opinions
01-21-2006, 11:08 PM
#4
All right ... this is where a lack of knowledge can go a long way to destroying a car.
First of all, just because a fluid seems to work in one car, does NOT mean it will have the same benefit in another. Transmissions basically all work under the same principles, however, the specifics to the inner workings can be as varied as the external styling.
I looked up the Scion TC online, and according to 2 sites (confirm this with the manual!) it calls for a GL-5 75W90 gear oil. This is an example of how different the Scion and the S2000 are. The S2000 requires a GL-4, 10W30 type of fluid. GM Synchromesh Friction Modified is a GL-4 10W30 fluid and is NOT appropriate for the Scion at all.
Put the GMSMFM in the Scion and not only will it probably cause more problems than fix them, it will absolutely void the factory warranty ... and Toyota WILL check the fluid in the transmission for clues as to what was in there before warranty work is done.
Remember: if you give bad advice and the other guy suffers a loss because of it ... you may be held liable.
First of all, just because a fluid seems to work in one car, does NOT mean it will have the same benefit in another. Transmissions basically all work under the same principles, however, the specifics to the inner workings can be as varied as the external styling.
I looked up the Scion TC online, and according to 2 sites (confirm this with the manual!) it calls for a GL-5 75W90 gear oil. This is an example of how different the Scion and the S2000 are. The S2000 requires a GL-4, 10W30 type of fluid. GM Synchromesh Friction Modified is a GL-4 10W30 fluid and is NOT appropriate for the Scion at all.
Put the GMSMFM in the Scion and not only will it probably cause more problems than fix them, it will absolutely void the factory warranty ... and Toyota WILL check the fluid in the transmission for clues as to what was in there before warranty work is done.
Remember: if you give bad advice and the other guy suffers a loss because of it ... you may be held liable.
01-21-2006, 11:32 PM
#5
I know this is about your buddy's TC ... however, without totally hijacking this post, this has to be said with regards to fluid choices and warranties:
Using a fluid that is not specifically designed for a vehicle can, and in many cases WILL, void a factory warranty. Using GMSMFM in the S2000 transmission (or Scion TC for that matter) will void the factory warranty (if caught), and this is why:
GMSMFM was developed for the NV1500 transmission used in GM and Chevy 4-cylinder, light duty S-10 'style' pickups ... and NOTHING else.
Last time I looked, the S2000 didn't fit that description at all. Look at the specs on the above-mentioned pickup and compare that to the S2000. Which vehicle is going to tear down a transmission fluid first?
Call GM, and without any hesitation they will tell you GMSMFM is NOT recommended, approved, or suggested for any application not noted on the bottle. This obviously excludes the S2000 (and the Scion TC).
Call Honda, and they will tell you not to use any fluid other than ones specifically designed for Honda manual transmissions, and that meet the OE requirements set forth for your specific model. Doing so WILL void the factory warranty for the component involved - i.e. the transmission. I know this because I have made those calls. Once again, this goes for any manufacturer (including Scion/Toyota in your example).
Many on this forum have noted that GMSMFM has helped with shifting problems in their S2000. I've used it in the past as well. However, while it may have helped with shifting - it may be neglecting lubrication, or other key areas of concern. No one can say for sure because the fluid was not designed for, or tested for use in the S2000.
When it comes to the S2000, I only recommend fluids that are designed to specifically meet the requirements set by Honda. The only fluids currently on the market that meet these requirement are Honda MTF and Amsoil MTF. The latter is better for many reasons.
Amsoil MTF exceeds all of the requirements of Honda MTF, while incorporating a friction modifier package designed to meet the needs of GMSMFM (and other fluids). In fact, Amsoil MTF is listed specifically as a direct replacement for several fluids, including Honda MTF and GMSMFM. No other fluid gives you all that. Not Redline, not Pennzoil, not Royal Purple ... no other fluid - period.
Amsoil MTF is also a FULL synthetic (GMSMFM is a semi-synth) and cost less than GMSMFM. Amsoil goes further by covering components against oil related failures while using their fluids. Again, try to get GM to cover your transmission if it fails due to using their fluid.
I hope this info helps.
Use what you want. Recommend only what won't get you sued.
Using a fluid that is not specifically designed for a vehicle can, and in many cases WILL, void a factory warranty. Using GMSMFM in the S2000 transmission (or Scion TC for that matter) will void the factory warranty (if caught), and this is why:
GMSMFM was developed for the NV1500 transmission used in GM and Chevy 4-cylinder, light duty S-10 'style' pickups ... and NOTHING else.
Last time I looked, the S2000 didn't fit that description at all. Look at the specs on the above-mentioned pickup and compare that to the S2000. Which vehicle is going to tear down a transmission fluid first?
Call GM, and without any hesitation they will tell you GMSMFM is NOT recommended, approved, or suggested for any application not noted on the bottle. This obviously excludes the S2000 (and the Scion TC).
Call Honda, and they will tell you not to use any fluid other than ones specifically designed for Honda manual transmissions, and that meet the OE requirements set forth for your specific model. Doing so WILL void the factory warranty for the component involved - i.e. the transmission. I know this because I have made those calls. Once again, this goes for any manufacturer (including Scion/Toyota in your example).
Many on this forum have noted that GMSMFM has helped with shifting problems in their S2000. I've used it in the past as well. However, while it may have helped with shifting - it may be neglecting lubrication, or other key areas of concern. No one can say for sure because the fluid was not designed for, or tested for use in the S2000.
When it comes to the S2000, I only recommend fluids that are designed to specifically meet the requirements set by Honda. The only fluids currently on the market that meet these requirement are Honda MTF and Amsoil MTF. The latter is better for many reasons.
Amsoil MTF exceeds all of the requirements of Honda MTF, while incorporating a friction modifier package designed to meet the needs of GMSMFM (and other fluids). In fact, Amsoil MTF is listed specifically as a direct replacement for several fluids, including Honda MTF and GMSMFM. No other fluid gives you all that. Not Redline, not Pennzoil, not Royal Purple ... no other fluid - period.
Amsoil MTF is also a FULL synthetic (GMSMFM is a semi-synth) and cost less than GMSMFM. Amsoil goes further by covering components against oil related failures while using their fluids. Again, try to get GM to cover your transmission if it fails due to using their fluid.
I hope this info helps.
Use what you want. Recommend only what won't get you sued.
01-22-2006, 07:08 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by slipstream444,Jan 22 2006, 12:08 AM
All right ... this is where a lack of knowledge can go a long way to destroying a car.
First of all, just because a fluid seems to work in one car, does NOT mean it will have the same benefit in another. Transmissions basically all work under the same principles, however, the specifics to the inner workings can be as varied as the external styling.
I looked up the Scion TC online, and according to 2 sites (confirm this with the manual!) it calls for a GL-5 75W90 gear oil. This is an example of how different the Scion and the S2000 are. The S2000 requires a GL-4, 10W30 type of fluid. GM Synchromesh Friction Modified is a GL-4 10W30 fluid and is NOT appropriate for the Scion at all.
Put the GMSMFM in the Scion and not only will it probably cause more problems than fix them, it will absolutely void the factory warranty ... and Toyota WILL check the fluid in the transmission for clues as to what was in there before warranty work is done.
Remember: if you give bad advice and the other guy suffers a loss because of it ... you may be held liable.
First of all, just because a fluid seems to work in one car, does NOT mean it will have the same benefit in another. Transmissions basically all work under the same principles, however, the specifics to the inner workings can be as varied as the external styling.
I looked up the Scion TC online, and according to 2 sites (confirm this with the manual!) it calls for a GL-5 75W90 gear oil. This is an example of how different the Scion and the S2000 are. The S2000 requires a GL-4, 10W30 type of fluid. GM Synchromesh Friction Modified is a GL-4 10W30 fluid and is NOT appropriate for the Scion at all.
Put the GMSMFM in the Scion and not only will it probably cause more problems than fix them, it will absolutely void the factory warranty ... and Toyota WILL check the fluid in the transmission for clues as to what was in there before warranty work is done.
Remember: if you give bad advice and the other guy suffers a loss because of it ... you may be held liable.
Thanks for the help. I guess I'll tell him to use the Redline MT90 then...which is a GL5 75w-90
Also, if the S2k calls for a GL4 10w30...why is it not a problem when certain people use the Redline MT90 in their S2k tranny, and why is it listed as a specific tranny fluid for the S2k on the S2ki marketplace?
01-22-2006, 08:16 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Silver9k,Jan 22 2006, 10:08 AM
Thats why I was posting here, and he also posted on Scion boards...I told him to also look in his manual but I don't know if he did. This is the info I was looking for BEFORE we put the fluid in becuase I knew that there could be a problem. As just because it works in an S2k doesn't mean it will work in his car. Basically I wasn't sure what the weight of the GMSMFM was either...I knew it was a GL-4 but didn't know it was a 10w-30 and wanted to find that out.
Thanks for the help. I guess I'll tell him to use the Redline MT90 then...which is a GL5 75w-90
Also, if the S2k calls for a GL4 10w30...why is it not a problem when certain people use the Redline MT90 in their S2k tranny, and why is it listed as a specific tranny fluid for the S2k on the S2ki marketplace?
Thanks for the help. I guess I'll tell him to use the Redline MT90 then...which is a GL5 75w-90
Also, if the S2k calls for a GL4 10w30...why is it not a problem when certain people use the Redline MT90 in their S2k tranny, and why is it listed as a specific tranny fluid for the S2k on the S2ki marketplace?
As a matter of fact - no Redline product is indicated as a direct replacement for Honda MTF or for the S2000 specifically. Redline MTL and MT90 are described as "popular" in Honda transaxles. But nowhere does it say it's designed to meet or exceed Honda's requirements or replace Honda MTF.
This is Redline's way of saying "hey are oil is real cool ... everyone is using it" without committing themselves legally. In other words - use at your own risk. Once again, Honda will not warranty damage to a transmission after unapproved fluids have been used.
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