Billman's Brake Fluid Gravity bleeding revised
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 672
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Registered User
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 77
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I believe they stopped producing Super Blue altogether (or at least distributing it to North America). In Canada, I can get ATE Typ200 easily, but Super Blue is nowhere to be found.
Why not just get Typ200? It's the exact same thing, just different colour.
Why not just get Typ200? It's the exact same thing, just different colour.
Registered User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 594
Likes: 24
From: Pittsburgh
As a thank you to this thread and Billman, here is some brake pedal feel data. Hopefully more people can measure stuff like this (at least the pictures if nothing else).
Brake pedal position at rest w/ booster drained (0.0 MPa) =|= position at light pressure w/ boost drained (0.6 MPa) =|= position with pedal pinned per Billman w/ booster energized (5.6 MPa)
These pictures were all taken with the side of my phone resting flat against the dead pedal. I believe you can use this to compare to your setup as long you make sure you take two pictures (rest and light pressure) and only consider the change in brake pedal position between the two. This should remove any negative effects of parallax error and camera positioning variability.
Here are some images showing the data capture.
For reference, I was able to put light pressure, just enough to take up the squish in the pedal, and register between 0.5 and 0.7 MPa on the readout with the engine off and all brake boost drained after repeated pedal actuations. This was to setup a baseline to be used to compare other cars. I believe there is a strong correlation between registering 0.6 +- 0.1 MPa on the readout and the end of the squish region of pedal travel. The only variability is due to air in the system which determines pedal position. With the engine on, I was able to apply same pressure and register 7.0 MPa. I've pushed the pedal as hard as 9.0 MPa before I thought the seat might break. Anyway, this may all sound like common sense but I thought it is better to explicitly state it. So people can confidently recreate these conditions without having access to the digital readout like I do.
I've pinned the pedal like so. I'll take another measurement (set of two pictures) in the morning.
Brake pedal position at rest w/ booster drained (0.0 MPa) =|= position at light pressure w/ boost drained (0.6 MPa) =|= position with pedal pinned per Billman w/ booster energized (5.6 MPa)
These pictures were all taken with the side of my phone resting flat against the dead pedal. I believe you can use this to compare to your setup as long you make sure you take two pictures (rest and light pressure) and only consider the change in brake pedal position between the two. This should remove any negative effects of parallax error and camera positioning variability.
Here are some images showing the data capture.
For reference, I was able to put light pressure, just enough to take up the squish in the pedal, and register between 0.5 and 0.7 MPa on the readout with the engine off and all brake boost drained after repeated pedal actuations. This was to setup a baseline to be used to compare other cars. I believe there is a strong correlation between registering 0.6 +- 0.1 MPa on the readout and the end of the squish region of pedal travel. The only variability is due to air in the system which determines pedal position. With the engine on, I was able to apply same pressure and register 7.0 MPa. I've pushed the pedal as hard as 9.0 MPa before I thought the seat might break. Anyway, this may all sound like common sense but I thought it is better to explicitly state it. So people can confidently recreate these conditions without having access to the digital readout like I do.
I've pinned the pedal like so. I'll take another measurement (set of two pictures) in the morning.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
From: Jersey City
After cracking the bleeder screw open should fluid be coming out of the thread area of the bleeder screw? I didn't want to turn the bleeder screw open too much but I see fluid leaking from the thread area and down the caliper but fluid was still not coming out of the nipple. Is that normal?
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,364
Likes: 1,795
Fluid should be coming from hole in the center of bleed screw (once open). Not the threads.
From center hole (left side of photo):
http://www.carid.com/images/wp/genui...1845502oes.jpg
From center hole (left side of photo):
http://www.carid.com/images/wp/genui...1845502oes.jpg
Thread Starter
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,388
Likes: 1,840
From: Long Island, New York
Put a tiny drill bit down inside the bleeder and twist it by hand, cleaning out the bleeder.
If brake fluid is only coming out of the threads, the bleeder is clogged and the drill bit will fix it.
If brake fluid is only coming out of the threads, the bleeder is clogged and the drill bit will fix it.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
As a thank you to this thread and Billman, here is some brake pedal feel data. Hopefully more people can measure stuff like this (at least the pictures if nothing else).
Brake pedal position at rest w/ booster drained (0.0 MPa) =|= position at light pressure w/ boost drained (0.6 MPa) =|= position with pedal pinned per Billman w/ booster energized (5.6 MPa)
These pictures were all taken with the side of my phone resting flat against the dead pedal. I believe you can use this to compare to your setup as long you make sure you take two pictures (rest and light pressure) and only consider the change in brake pedal position between the two. This should remove any negative effects of parallax error and camera positioning variability.
Here are some images showing the data capture.
For reference, I was able to put light pressure, just enough to take up the squish in the pedal, and register between 0.5 and 0.7 MPa on the readout with the engine off and all brake boost drained after repeated pedal actuations. This was to setup a baseline to be used to compare other cars. I believe there is a strong correlation between registering 0.6 +- 0.1 MPa on the readout and the end of the squish region of pedal travel. The only variability is due to air in the system which determines pedal position. With the engine on, I was able to apply same pressure and register 7.0 MPa. I've pushed the pedal as hard as 9.0 MPa before I thought the seat might break. Anyway, this may all sound like common sense but I thought it is better to explicitly state it. So people can confidently recreate these conditions without having access to the digital readout like I do.
I've pinned the pedal like so. I'll take another measurement (set of two pictures) in the morning.
Brake pedal position at rest w/ booster drained (0.0 MPa) =|= position at light pressure w/ boost drained (0.6 MPa) =|= position with pedal pinned per Billman w/ booster energized (5.6 MPa)
These pictures were all taken with the side of my phone resting flat against the dead pedal. I believe you can use this to compare to your setup as long you make sure you take two pictures (rest and light pressure) and only consider the change in brake pedal position between the two. This should remove any negative effects of parallax error and camera positioning variability.
Here are some images showing the data capture.
For reference, I was able to put light pressure, just enough to take up the squish in the pedal, and register between 0.5 and 0.7 MPa on the readout with the engine off and all brake boost drained after repeated pedal actuations. This was to setup a baseline to be used to compare other cars. I believe there is a strong correlation between registering 0.6 +- 0.1 MPa on the readout and the end of the squish region of pedal travel. The only variability is due to air in the system which determines pedal position. With the engine on, I was able to apply same pressure and register 7.0 MPa. I've pushed the pedal as hard as 9.0 MPa before I thought the seat might break. Anyway, this may all sound like common sense but I thought it is better to explicitly state it. So people can confidently recreate these conditions without having access to the digital readout like I do.
I've pinned the pedal like so. I'll take another measurement (set of two pictures) in the morning.
I just did this today and my brake travel is now only 2-3 inches (much shorter than before). It feels completely different now than how it was before I started the bleed. I haven't test drove it yet as I messed up on my clutch bleed (air in lines). But I want to know if this is normal or did I mess up the brakes also. I thought the brake feel should be the same as before...
Please help.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 328
Likes: 6
I just did this today and my brake travel is now only 2-3 inches (much shorter than before). It feels completely different now than how it was before I started the bleed. I haven't test drove it yet as I messed up on my clutch bleed (air in lines). But I want to know if this is normal or did I mess up the brakes also. I thought the brake feel should be the same as before...
Please help.
Please help.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,436
From: Foothills East of Sacramento
Did mine today. A shop did it 3 years ago. I used ATE SL6 from Amazon, got the 1 liter can, had about 1/8 left over, I also did the the baster/refill for the clutch.
https://www.amazon.com/ATE-706402-Or...ywords=ate+sl6
Although I drove around a bit beforehand, the engine was nice and warm for an oil change but the brake fluid was not particularly hot so it took a while to drip out. I did not do any "spirited" braking as Billman recommends. Will do it the next time. Bleed both rears together.
I had one of those "Brake Bleeder" kits with the little plastic bottles and cap with nipples for the plastic lines. Worked fine. As it filled up I emptied it into my recycle container. I used a disposable aluminum chafing pan as a catch all to get any stray drips.
Thank you Billman.
https://www.amazon.com/ATE-706402-Or...ywords=ate+sl6
Although I drove around a bit beforehand, the engine was nice and warm for an oil change but the brake fluid was not particularly hot so it took a while to drip out. I did not do any "spirited" braking as Billman recommends. Will do it the next time. Bleed both rears together.
I had one of those "Brake Bleeder" kits with the little plastic bottles and cap with nipples for the plastic lines. Worked fine. As it filled up I emptied it into my recycle container. I used a disposable aluminum chafing pan as a catch all to get any stray drips.
Thank you Billman.