I guess people just like spreading the BS around on this thread...

Parts that Mugen uses on their Honda_street_car_based race cars are the EXACT same parts, or prototypes of future production parts, that one can buy from any authorized Mugen dealer/distributor- something many Japanese race teams do, including the ones with the famous tuner names boldly displayed on the sheetmetal.

For what it's worth, nobody in the Grand Am Cup or Speedvision Cup uses Spoon Sports parts, but Mugen parts are VERY prevalent in both.

 

This is all a moot point if you don't know how to use it. Its like having a gun but not knowing how to fire it. Go to driving school.

 

I apologize... but I really wasn't trying to spread BS...

For Civics and Integras, Mugen does sell many race parts... but only a handful. Just compare the parts lists from Spoon and Mugen... the length of each speaks volumes. As for the S2K, Mugen is not making N1 level parts... otherwise, the exhaust would be just as loud as any other racing exhaust. And likewise... just compare the parts lists for the S2K from Mugen vs. Spoon... you'll get the idea.

In terms of N1 racing... I was only referring to Japanese series. For American series, I am not that familiar, so thank you for educating me about the lack of use of Spoon parts vs. Mugen... but it really doesn't surprise me. Mugen has a well-funded distributor in King Motorsports... and has always had a good market presence in the USA. Spoon is just not a very business-minded company... I can tell you that from experience! Availability is poor... advertising non-existent... factory support? Ha! Not if you live outside of Japan!

So yeah, go for Mugen... it's the AMG and M Division of Hondas...

 

Again, that's incorrect.

Mugen DOT legal parts are used on many racecars- it's the same specification. They have managed to make their most of their power producing race parts legal for the road, something that most "tuners" out there don't have the ability to do- which is why those other companies have a "N1" specification. N1 specification for parts means that it's not street legal or is not suitable for street use. For example, Mugen sells a JASMA header for the Integra Type R, and three different specifications of suspension- a street system, a street threaded body system, and a race threaded body system suitable only for race use (you can use it on the street, but it is NOT recommended). The point here is- Mugen sells a street legal header that is used in almost ALL ITR racecars in the world, AND sells street or race suspension systems. For something as simple as an exhaust system, they sell a JASMA approved kit, and can also recommend a race design that works best with the car- a design that only differs from the street system in weight and sound only, not power output. Think about that the next time someone says the Mugen exhaust doesn't make power...

The fallacy here is- just because something is louder or has a different name does not mean that it performs better. For_race_ only parts are NOT streetable, and those that tell otherwise say so only because they don't have the research and development facility available to create streetable parts.

If, and that is a BIG if, it performs better, you would be SURE to see raceteams everywhere using that product. For example, MOTON suspenion is the defacto suspension system in the Grand Am Cup and Speedvision Cup- whether it be Porsches, Corvettes, Mustangs, or Integras. It's a race system, and costs $1200 a corner, not including springs. There are NO sponsorships. They buy these systems because it will help them WIN. Thus, arguing one distributor is better organised/well funded than another is moot in that regard. If they are serious about motorsports, racing should be part of their marketing mix. As a street user, if you think the product does not get good support, why would you buy it? The justification of using an exhaust that fails every noise pollution test in the world, AND not have any warranty support, is not the smartest. As a distributor for a company, if they don't get good support from the company, why would the bother selling that product?

So what did we learn here?

1. Just because it's a "race only" part doesn't make it automatically better.

2. R&D plays a big part in the cost of parts.

3. Caveat emptor when buying parts from companies that have poor warranty service- whether it is the shop, distributor or manufacturer.

Sorry for the length, I hope that clears up some of the mess that was created in this thread.

 

ok, well while your driving your "streetable" dual exhaust Mugen that only sounds good, I will be happy to drive a system designed for maximum power, that being Spoon. Don't forget that the argument in this post is what is better: Mugen or Spoon. The unspoken statement was which is better for the S2000. If you tell me that Mugen parts perform better than Spoon on the S2000, you are a very ignorant person. We all know that Mugen has a very large racing heritage, but to me, they haven't shown that in the S2000. I don't understand the purpose of buying an exhaust system that offers NO hp gain and costs well over the $900 range for the Spoon. Why? Because you like the looks, and it says Mugen? That is quite stupid. As Spoon AP1 said, putting parts offered be both companies next to eachother, Spoon bests Mugen. Comparing years of racing and parts for other vehicles than the S2K which has NO significance on our cars.... Mugen wins! You be the judge!

 

I don't see the point, really, in responding to your above post, Pappy, but you need to learn a little more about the Mugen exhaust. It provides torque, though I don't have the number right in front of me. I do have it at home...but it provides additional TORQUE across the entire powerband.

I'll take more torque over more peak horsepower any day of the week! Getting a car to go fast is all about torque, period. The number that comprises what people call horsepower is derived from torque and rpms. And anyone who says that an aftermarket exhaust ALONE on the S2000 increases hp by something on the order of 12-15 is either dreaming or a liar...or both!. It's common knowledge that this just isn't possible from an exhaust by itself.

Buy what makes your happy...just know the facts before you do.

From King's web site about the Mugen exhaust...

[QUOTE]

 

"As a result of our quest for the ideal design for racing engines, Mugen developed the "twin loop-type silencer," in which the pipe is twisted into two loops and passes straight through the silencer twice."

Such an exhaust is Mugen's for the Civic and such; the S2000 Mugen exhaust does not employ the twin loop configuration.

 

You are 100% correct. Also, the weight of the Mugen exhaust, since it's been brought up here before, is about 25 pounds, Titanium mufflers, stainless everything else. The stock piece is roughly twice the weight..

 

I will garuntee that the Spoon exhaust will provide higher torque ratings than a Mugen. I wil dyno my car tommorrow so I can prove it, but I need a dyno of just a mugen exhaust. We will compare and then we can debate!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pappy
[B]I will garuntee that the Spoon exhaust will provide higher torque ratings than a Mugen.