This generation.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,087
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From: Dry Branch
OK, I did my homework, and found these gems.
"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." - Socrates
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
"An honest man is always a child." - Socrates
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. " - Socrates
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature." - Socrates
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates
"If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it." - Socrates
"Let him that would move the world first move himself." - Socrates
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be." - Socrates
I've always been more of a Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) fan myself, but Socrates did think a lot, and said some cleaver things. Many are, or should be, words to live by.
RED
"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." - Socrates
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
"An honest man is always a child." - Socrates
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. " - Socrates
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature." - Socrates
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates
"If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it." - Socrates
"Let him that would move the world first move himself." - Socrates
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be." - Socrates
I've always been more of a Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) fan myself, but Socrates did think a lot, and said some cleaver things. Many are, or should be, words to live by.
RED
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,155
Likes: 1,638
From: Randolph, NJ
Red
No need to apologize for hijacking the thread. This has been some interesting reading. That said, I have to say that I disagree with some of what you have said. I'd like to focus on a few things.
You speak of your friend Lee, and how his being away from home on business and his wife's return to work opened the door for his children's being led astray. You seem to blame the public schools for allowing sinister kids to attend, the wife for returning to work and the father for being away from home. You speak as if this is a new phenomenon. It is not. For as long as I can remember, and I am 53 years old, I have heard stories of "kids who got in with the wrong crowd". I have heard this about children of my parent's friends where the mother was a stay at home mom, and the father came home every night. As a child I remember being warned not to get involved with the wrong crowd. This is not new. There have always been members of the wrong crowd in our schools, and there have always been kids that have been led astray. I think to blame a mom's return to work or the schools is far too simple an answer for a much more complex problem.
Throughout your posts you seem to say that there are very few decent public schools, and those that exist are available to only a small percentage of the population. I beg to differ. Yes, there are some horrible public school districts, but there are also quite a number of very fine school districts. Take a look at the schools in Bayside, Queens, New York. A working class area, where there have been more Intel Scholarship (formally Westinghouse) winners than any other district in the United States. Take a look at the Styvesant High School, Bronx High School of Science and Brooklyn Technical High School, all part of the New York City public school system and see if they aren't producing fine graduates from students drawn from a cross section of the New York City population. Look at the school districts in many town across New Jersey, such as mine, and you will see some fine education. And, I am sure there are hundreds of fine districts across the country. The public schools are not perfect, but many are mighty good. I for one don't think it's fair to place so much blame on the schools.
There is a pessimistic tone to this thread. Reading through many of the posts I am forced to think of the question I asked my wife in the very opening post, "When did you become your mother. When did you become my mother." It seems many of us have become our parents, and have forgotten about when we were young. I am much more optimistic. I don't think we live in a perfect place, but I don't think we are speeding towards certain doom either. And, I'm not convinced that this generation is that much different than those who have come before. I think maybe the real answer is that our vision has changed.
This has been a fine thread. I'm not sure anyone has changed anyone else's mind, but I think we've all been able to learn a few things, and that makes it worth the effort.
No need to apologize for hijacking the thread. This has been some interesting reading. That said, I have to say that I disagree with some of what you have said. I'd like to focus on a few things.
You speak of your friend Lee, and how his being away from home on business and his wife's return to work opened the door for his children's being led astray. You seem to blame the public schools for allowing sinister kids to attend, the wife for returning to work and the father for being away from home. You speak as if this is a new phenomenon. It is not. For as long as I can remember, and I am 53 years old, I have heard stories of "kids who got in with the wrong crowd". I have heard this about children of my parent's friends where the mother was a stay at home mom, and the father came home every night. As a child I remember being warned not to get involved with the wrong crowd. This is not new. There have always been members of the wrong crowd in our schools, and there have always been kids that have been led astray. I think to blame a mom's return to work or the schools is far too simple an answer for a much more complex problem.
Throughout your posts you seem to say that there are very few decent public schools, and those that exist are available to only a small percentage of the population. I beg to differ. Yes, there are some horrible public school districts, but there are also quite a number of very fine school districts. Take a look at the schools in Bayside, Queens, New York. A working class area, where there have been more Intel Scholarship (formally Westinghouse) winners than any other district in the United States. Take a look at the Styvesant High School, Bronx High School of Science and Brooklyn Technical High School, all part of the New York City public school system and see if they aren't producing fine graduates from students drawn from a cross section of the New York City population. Look at the school districts in many town across New Jersey, such as mine, and you will see some fine education. And, I am sure there are hundreds of fine districts across the country. The public schools are not perfect, but many are mighty good. I for one don't think it's fair to place so much blame on the schools.
There is a pessimistic tone to this thread. Reading through many of the posts I am forced to think of the question I asked my wife in the very opening post, "When did you become your mother. When did you become my mother." It seems many of us have become our parents, and have forgotten about when we were young. I am much more optimistic. I don't think we live in a perfect place, but I don't think we are speeding towards certain doom either. And, I'm not convinced that this generation is that much different than those who have come before. I think maybe the real answer is that our vision has changed.
This has been a fine thread. I'm not sure anyone has changed anyone else's mind, but I think we've all been able to learn a few things, and that makes it worth the effort.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,579
Likes: 157
From: West Deptford NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED MX5
OK, I did my homework, and found these gems.
"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." - Socrates
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
"An honest man is always a child." - Socrates
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. " - Socrates
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature." - Socrates
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates
"If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it." - Socrates
"Let him that would move the world first move himself." - Socrates
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be." - Socrates
I've always been more of a Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) fan myself, but Socrates did think a lot, and said some cleaver things.
OK, I did my homework, and found these gems.
"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." - Socrates
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
"An honest man is always a child." - Socrates
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for. " - Socrates
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature." - Socrates
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates
"If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it." - Socrates
"Let him that would move the world first move himself." - Socrates
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be." - Socrates
I've always been more of a Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) fan myself, but Socrates did think a lot, and said some cleaver things.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,130
Likes: 124
From: Canton, MA
Red, I don't think you need to feel that you didn't communicate your points well. Just because people don't agree, it doesn't mean they don't understand. I for one agree that our society is in decline, much the same way as the Roman empire. But I also believe that it might be possible to ride this out. I guess I don't see it as a one way street to mediocrity.
I applaud your alternative schooling and your advocacy of the program. America is a bunch of little social experiments coexisting within the same boundries and governed by the same laws. The good experiments get noticed, catch on, and become more main stream. Someday your program may be available in a public school system so that parents don't have to rely on home schooling to take advantage of it. It takes a lot of time and sometimes a lot of work and sacrafice to get new ideas accepted. Please keep it up, and don't get discouraged if others have a different view.
Book learning is the reason we send our kids to school and the area we constantly examine and criticize. I wish my public school education had been better. But we overlook the social education our kids receive in public schools, or, in this case, we seem to value it differently. I think our kids need to bump up against all kinds in their childhood. They need to meet the good, the bad and the ugly. I think it is better for them to do that while they are living under our roofs, where we can see who the other people are, monitor our kid's behavior and try to give guidance. I don't think our kids should be trying to deal with these things for the first time in college when they are on their own.
I applaud your alternative schooling and your advocacy of the program. America is a bunch of little social experiments coexisting within the same boundries and governed by the same laws. The good experiments get noticed, catch on, and become more main stream. Someday your program may be available in a public school system so that parents don't have to rely on home schooling to take advantage of it. It takes a lot of time and sometimes a lot of work and sacrafice to get new ideas accepted. Please keep it up, and don't get discouraged if others have a different view.
Book learning is the reason we send our kids to school and the area we constantly examine and criticize. I wish my public school education had been better. But we overlook the social education our kids receive in public schools, or, in this case, we seem to value it differently. I think our kids need to bump up against all kinds in their childhood. They need to meet the good, the bad and the ugly. I think it is better for them to do that while they are living under our roofs, where we can see who the other people are, monitor our kid's behavior and try to give guidance. I don't think our kids should be trying to deal with these things for the first time in college when they are on their own.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,697
Likes: 8,215
From: Mish-she-gan
We all know there have been many compromises made in the public school system to try to satisfy everyone, including hanging on to very poor teachers. But in the end, good or bad school, it all rests on each kid's shoulders.
I was a rebel in high school, so what ever they tried to teach me was pretty much wasted. Wonderful school or crappy school, it wouldn't have made any difference. Flunking Latin was one thing, getting kicked out of college English was another, but the real kicker was I got kicked out of Art class! I drew and painted all my life and loved art. To say I was a disappointment to my parents was an under statement. As I recall, when I squeaked through my senior year I graduated with a class ranking of 225 out of 245.
A few years later, after seeing the world, I hit the books and graduated college with a B+ average and had success in business.
I was a rebel in high school, so what ever they tried to teach me was pretty much wasted. Wonderful school or crappy school, it wouldn't have made any difference. Flunking Latin was one thing, getting kicked out of college English was another, but the real kicker was I got kicked out of Art class! I drew and painted all my life and loved art. To say I was a disappointment to my parents was an under statement. As I recall, when I squeaked through my senior year I graduated with a class ranking of 225 out of 245.
A few years later, after seeing the world, I hit the books and graduated college with a B+ average and had success in business.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,315
Likes: 45
From: Central Massachusetts
Originally posted by MsPerky
Yes - We all know that boys do not focus well in their high school years. On school anyway!!
Yes - We all know that boys do not focus well in their high school years. On school anyway!!
Seriously, I guess I'm in the minority around here. I worked my patootie off during school, and I suppose I was an early bloomer. This business of accomodating the late bloomers is an important factor that I often forget about when talking about education.
But, this goes back to an older thread regarding sending kids to college (as an expected part of their progress)... I'm not sure any of that has really changed with this generation.
So, are kids even less prepared for higher education these days?