The Killer Angels
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
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From: Canton, MA
Well, we seem to be down to a group of five participants. Again, let me know if you would all just rather fire away. I think class has become tedious for some.
Day two, chapter three, Longstreet
We see the events of the morning as seen through the eyes of Freemantle in chapter 1, result in the events of the afternoon as lived by Longstreet. So much happenns in this chapter and I have so many opinions about it that I feel I should allow all of you to chime in first. Remember, there are only five of us, so we can't all wait to see what the others are going to say. Here is the class syllabus.
Longstreet accepts his orders.
Lee's warning to Longstreet.
Longstreet's interpretation of the warning.
Learning the ground on the fly.
Stuart, Stuart, where is Stuart?
Longstreets long walk.
McLaws has surprise guests in his "den."
Big roundtop is deserted.
Hood's logical plea.
Longstreet's commitment to orders.
Longstreet bides his time on the fence.
Glossary terms:
En echelon
enfilading fire
Day two, chapter three, Longstreet
We see the events of the morning as seen through the eyes of Freemantle in chapter 1, result in the events of the afternoon as lived by Longstreet. So much happenns in this chapter and I have so many opinions about it that I feel I should allow all of you to chime in first. Remember, there are only five of us, so we can't all wait to see what the others are going to say. Here is the class syllabus.
Longstreet accepts his orders.
Lee's warning to Longstreet.
Longstreet's interpretation of the warning.
Learning the ground on the fly.
Stuart, Stuart, where is Stuart?
Longstreets long walk.
McLaws has surprise guests in his "den."
Big roundtop is deserted.
Hood's logical plea.
Longstreet's commitment to orders.
Longstreet bides his time on the fence.
Glossary terms:
En echelon
enfilading fire
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 18,885
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From: Philly (Narberth)
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 12 2006, 09:00 PM
....Glossary terms:
En echelon
enfilading fire
En echelon
enfilading fire
en filading fire= haven't checked back to the text, but I think it's raking fire...hitting a unit from the side (usually unanticipated)....rather the from the front (?)
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 18,885
Likes: 33
From: Philly (Narberth)
Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Sep 12 2006, 09:00 PM
.....Learning the ground on the fly......
Former Moderator
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,122
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From: Houston/Durango
Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 24 2006, 06:36 PM
In anticipation of the firestorm thats coming.
I thought you might like to read the words. If ever there was a song/poem of the Civil War, this is it. Read the first and last verse very carefully.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
l can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
His day is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish`d rows of steel,
"As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;"
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
He has sounded form the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
He has sounded form the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
ln the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I thought you might like to read the words. If ever there was a song/poem of the Civil War, this is it. Read the first and last verse very carefully.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
l can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
His day is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish`d rows of steel,
"As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;"
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
He has sounded form the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
He has sounded form the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
ln the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
Former Moderator
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,122
Likes: 629
From: Houston/Durango
I was born out to the west (but have lived in the east), and my family name is found on the rolls of both armies. But you Yankees and Rebels who grew up on the 'sacred' soil of these 'two' divided regions, that-- where the battles were fought, -- and have a more direct historical and emotional connection to the war, have apparently been saving your comments until further on in the discussion. Or is Bill right about the tedium? Your participation in the exchange would help the discussion along ... 
[[QUOTE (Jerry)
.....Learning the ground on the fly......
Stuart and the cavalry were having fun elsewhere. The cavalry should have done terrain reconaissance in advance, including plotting positions for artillery and other backup. As you'll see when we tour the battlefield, the terrain is rolling and open/closed (re: trees)....very hard for Longstreet to plan his attack without the 'eyes' of the army mad.gif]]
Could it be that the cavalry's absence might actually be due to Lee's failure to give clear enough instructions to his army before their invasion of the North. Or did Stuart -- and others just fail to follow his clear orders? There must be some reason for us to understand why he was so far away from Headquarters and contact With General Lee for so long. Or was it just evil fate -- or 'God's will' -- that was at work at Gettyburg?
The army seems to be scattered out all over southern Pennsylvania getting ready for a battle at Harrisburg. Stuart thought he was doing what he was supposed to do, roam and disrupt Union wagons and supply lines on the way up ----(plus of course continuing to get attention from the press).
Wasn't he as yet unaware of the unforeseen confrontation at Gettysburg, and that he was sorely needed there??
Vito, What was the original battle plan of the army of Northern Virginia when they crossed into Pennsylvania? Do the reports in any way indicate what would have happened if the Confederates had continued on without intelligence (i.e. no Stuart and if Longstreet had not hired the spy)? And let's say thay had not decided to send Heth over to Gettysburg to requisition shoes -- ! Could have happened... Would Lee's army have been able then to meet up at Harrisburg for the intended battle? Or was Buford and the Union Army de facto too close by in their march north for that to happen?
[[QUOTE (Jerry)
.....Learning the ground on the fly......
Stuart and the cavalry were having fun elsewhere. The cavalry should have done terrain reconaissance in advance, including plotting positions for artillery and other backup. As you'll see when we tour the battlefield, the terrain is rolling and open/closed (re: trees)....very hard for Longstreet to plan his attack without the 'eyes' of the army mad.gif]]
Could it be that the cavalry's absence might actually be due to Lee's failure to give clear enough instructions to his army before their invasion of the North. Or did Stuart -- and others just fail to follow his clear orders? There must be some reason for us to understand why he was so far away from Headquarters and contact With General Lee for so long. Or was it just evil fate -- or 'God's will' -- that was at work at Gettyburg?
The army seems to be scattered out all over southern Pennsylvania getting ready for a battle at Harrisburg. Stuart thought he was doing what he was supposed to do, roam and disrupt Union wagons and supply lines on the way up ----(plus of course continuing to get attention from the press).
Wasn't he as yet unaware of the unforeseen confrontation at Gettysburg, and that he was sorely needed there??Vito, What was the original battle plan of the army of Northern Virginia when they crossed into Pennsylvania? Do the reports in any way indicate what would have happened if the Confederates had continued on without intelligence (i.e. no Stuart and if Longstreet had not hired the spy)? And let's say thay had not decided to send Heth over to Gettysburg to requisition shoes -- ! Could have happened... Would Lee's army have been able then to meet up at Harrisburg for the intended battle? Or was Buford and the Union Army de facto too close by in their march north for that to happen?
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From: Flintstone GA
Originally Posted by S1997,Sep 13 2006, 05:59 AM
raymo19, ajlafleche, Lainey8484, plantpixie, Looter, valentine, MsPerky, et.al.; Where are you guys??
Longstreet is once again a central figure but it is Thomas' unshakeable defense of Snodgrass Hill and Horseshoe Ridge covering the Union retreat which preserves the Chattanooga campaign.
I'll be back to join in later.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
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From: Canton, MA
Originally Posted by paS2K,Sep 13 2006, 12:27 AM
echelon= attacking as a 'wave'....resulting in a continuous line of fire...starting at one end of a unit and continuing....one after the other; by the time fire reaches the end, the first to fire have reloaded. remember most of the infantry only get one shot....then have to ram another home.
en filading fire= haven't checked back to the text, but I think it's raking fire...hitting a unit from the side (usually unanticipated)....rather the from the front (?)
en filading fire= haven't checked back to the text, but I think it's raking fire...hitting a unit from the side (usually unanticipated)....rather the from the front (?)
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 34,131
Likes: 126
From: Canton, MA
Longstreet.
He knows the best move is to the right.
He learns the ground will not give appropriate cover as he positions his troops.
He learns the Union forces are not in the expected positions.
His subordinates know that a move to the right will bring them upon the Union's flank, if not their rear.
He knows his troops will suffer heavy, perhaps insurmountable losses based on the position of the enemy.
He knows it is already getting late.
And yet he orders the charge as planned by Lee.
Compare Ewell and Early with Longstreet. The day before the double Es choose not to attack and get away with it. Why does Longstreet go forward? Why doesn't he adjust on the fly? Why doesn't he send word back to Lee that his forces must move right?
Compare the battle map that Lee was reviewing back in chapter one with the position of the forces in chapter three. Hasn't the ground changed? Shouldn't prudent leaders reconsider?
Hood has the plan. Why not try it?
He knows the best move is to the right.
He learns the ground will not give appropriate cover as he positions his troops.
He learns the Union forces are not in the expected positions.
His subordinates know that a move to the right will bring them upon the Union's flank, if not their rear.
He knows his troops will suffer heavy, perhaps insurmountable losses based on the position of the enemy.
He knows it is already getting late.
And yet he orders the charge as planned by Lee.
Compare Ewell and Early with Longstreet. The day before the double Es choose not to attack and get away with it. Why does Longstreet go forward? Why doesn't he adjust on the fly? Why doesn't he send word back to Lee that his forces must move right?
Compare the battle map that Lee was reviewing back in chapter one with the position of the forces in chapter three. Hasn't the ground changed? Shouldn't prudent leaders reconsider?
Hood has the plan. Why not try it?
