LB - I have been advised, as Vito's intermediary, to tell you that he has drawn you into his trap. Be forewarned...P.S. How many games are the Yankees up over Boston?? Oops - wrong thread. Don't blame me - I'm just the messenger.

 

[QUOTE=Legal Bill,Sep 10 2006, 11:39 AM]
...
4.

 

[QUOTE=Legal Bill,Sep 10 2006, 11:39 AM] ...
6.

 

I think Shaara uses Fremantle as an independent observer, to tell us about morale and his thoughts on the outcome of the upcoming battle/war. His sympathies are with the South, and all of the "transplanted" Englishmen. He sees democracy as a "failed" experiment, with all that "equality rot." He thinks the South will triumph in the battle and ultimately in the war. The gentlemen against the rabble.

He asks a great question of Longstreet, wondering what makes him think Meade won't attack Confederate forces, that did not entrench.

 

Freemantle equates the South with England, europe and the class structure. He concludes the North and the "classless" systen is a failed experiment.

Freemantle is a confederacy groupie! He loves the men and he loves the action. Even though he seem disturbed by slavery, he seems sure they will get past that.

I think Sharaa uses Freemantle to focus the readers back on the cause of the Union.

Finally, what of the notion of war as a game? Let's face it, Freemantle just loves the idea of war and conflict. He has no dog in the fight. He is just there to see the fight. Is freemantle here to make us think about warfare and all the issues it comes with?

 

The ground for the Union is so good, that one of their Corps commanders, General Sickles, decides to move his entire corps off Cemetery Ridge just prior to the day 2 fighting. Why? "He didn't like the ground."

My take on your points, which are great points :

1. Lee is in enemy territory because he knows this is the only chance for victory. His objective is to take out as many Union corps as he can in a series of meeting engagements, and force peace. He inflicts 50% casualties and licks two Union corps after only 1 day of battle.

2. Lee is 57. He served his country well for decades. He was there for General Scott in the Mexican War, and sacrificed many years of separation from all of his kin over his career, faithfully serving his country. He was commandant at West Point. He was the Union's choice for General of all Union forces prior to hostilities, so highly was he regarded. At Appomatox, he is saluted by Union forces after his surrender.

3. There is no historical record of Lee's ailments affecting his decision-making at Gettysburg, my thought is that this is artistic license. Lee was a warrior, and wanted victory. After day 1, his dander meter was pegged to the right. Victory was close at hand.

4. Agree. And assuming Stonewall would have attacked the hill on day 1, and he was successful, the Union forces withdraw to an extremely strong offensive/defensive position along Pipe's Creek. That would not have been good for Lee.

5. Ewell was anything but indecisive, as described by Lee himself after the war. He gave orders to his commanders to prepare for an attack evening of day 1. He decides not to order his troops to take the hill, for many reasons. Even if he did, see 4. Lee is fighting with the troops and leaders he has, and he just pushed back two corps. He has many brave and audacious leaders still, Longstreet, Armistead, Garnett, Stuart, Hood, Barksdale, etc.

6. Agree, so were many other leaders on both sides. Union leaders boasted they would defeat the rebels in 3 months. Civilians from the North watched the first Battle of Manassas (Bull Run) from nearby hills, with picnic baskets. Lee is basing his decision-making on prior battle experiences. His forces achieve victory after victory against consistently superior numbers of Union forces. He has been consistently outmanned and outgunned, yet he and his troops always prevail. He is a warrior, and he has an awesome responsiblity, to defeat the Union army on their territory. He is the most beloved General since Washington. Meade is new to command, untested. Lee does not think Meade can assemble the entire Army of the Potomac in time at Gettysburg to counter his battle plan for day 2. If he attacks at a vulnerable point, he can sweep the Federal position from the flank and rear. Agree that his intelligence remains poor.

7. There is some of this going on. Yet Ewell decides not to attack on day 1 in large measure because of the ferocity of the fighting on day 1, and his troops are exhausted. The Confederate troops have experienced fallen comrades, shattered limbs, battlefield horrors, etc. They know they can be bled, but at the end of day 1, they are the victors. The pushed back and inflicted thousands of casualties against two Union corps, which is exactly what Lee's plan was. Take out some of their corps, in several meeting engagements.

 

[QUOTE=Vitito,Sep 10 2006, 08:43 PM] The ground for the Union is so good, that one of their Corps commanders, General Sickles, decides to move his entire corps off Cemetery Ridge just prior to the day 2 fighting.

 

Just back in town, so I will only comment from memory on one of Jim's points:

I seems clear that the Unions forces WERE pushed back through Gettysburg and north of town b/c many (Union) troops and materiel were captured....stacks and stacks of stuff. This does not give evidence to an orderly withdrawal onto higher ground.

 

[QUOTE=paS2K,Sep 11 2006, 09:43 AM] Just back in town, so I will only comment from memory on one of Jim's points:

I seems clear that the Unions forces WERE pushed back through Gettysburg and north of town b/c many (Union) troops and materiel were captured....stacks and stacks of stuff.

 

What chapter are we on?