Bourbon's S6000
ok. well I wonder why your planning to have a removable member then have to add a ton more bracing just to do what the cross member should do.. seems very counter intuitive to me.
honda would not have put it there if the chassis didn't need the additional bracing.
the fact your putting a heavier & more torque y engine up front will cause the front chassis to twist more.
honda would not have put it there if the chassis didn't need the additional bracing.
the fact your putting a heavier & more torque y engine up front will cause the front chassis to twist more.
The removable cross member will have some rigidity in it but obviously not as much as the original so that's why extra bracing will be added, the point of taking the original out is so that the new engine actually fits in.
The actual difference in weight of the f20c(+gbox) and the Ls2(+gbox) is approximately 75kg (same as my weight after I've been to Burger King)
The t56 box is heavier than the S2's gbox and so is the flywheel (built to handle the torque)
The actual block it's self is fully aluminium and is 6L+ of hollowness so for its size it is deceptively light, don't get me wrong it's still heavy, just not as much as you'd expect.
I usually drive with just me in the car anyway so the weight difference would be like having a passenger.
The weight balance will be changed but with a few tweeks can easily be restored to 50/50 especially once a beefier differential and drive shafts have been fitted.
The torque. If you are to take both book values then the increase is by approximately 300%. God damn!
I'm not saying this car is going to be perfectly engineered, in fact there will be a couple of trade offs and compromises, hence the extra bracing and such.
The car is a "let's see what this'll be like"
If I have any issues with it when running I'll try my hardest to rectify or minimalise whilst also updating the thread, there are some smart minds on this forum and there's always someone who can come up with a better way to do something.
Plus is a work in progress ATM and lots of things are subject to change
Engine didn't come btw, couple of reasons but main one was that god damn caddy and money pit that I call a girlfriend!
Payday Friday though so it shouldn't be too much longer, just hard to organise delivery around my shifts!
I'll also get my re-trimmed steering wheel back this week hopefully!
Then I can get the car into the workshop again and swap my subframe for my modded one and sort my engine mounts ready for a test fit!
The actual difference in weight of the f20c(+gbox) and the Ls2(+gbox) is approximately 75kg (same as my weight after I've been to Burger King)
The t56 box is heavier than the S2's gbox and so is the flywheel (built to handle the torque)
The actual block it's self is fully aluminium and is 6L+ of hollowness so for its size it is deceptively light, don't get me wrong it's still heavy, just not as much as you'd expect.
I usually drive with just me in the car anyway so the weight difference would be like having a passenger.
The weight balance will be changed but with a few tweeks can easily be restored to 50/50 especially once a beefier differential and drive shafts have been fitted.
The torque. If you are to take both book values then the increase is by approximately 300%. God damn!
I'm not saying this car is going to be perfectly engineered, in fact there will be a couple of trade offs and compromises, hence the extra bracing and such.
The car is a "let's see what this'll be like"
If I have any issues with it when running I'll try my hardest to rectify or minimalise whilst also updating the thread, there are some smart minds on this forum and there's always someone who can come up with a better way to do something.
Plus is a work in progress ATM and lots of things are subject to change

Engine didn't come btw, couple of reasons but main one was that god damn caddy and money pit that I call a girlfriend!
Payday Friday though so it shouldn't be too much longer, just hard to organise delivery around my shifts!
I'll also get my re-trimmed steering wheel back this week hopefully!
Then I can get the car into the workshop again and swap my subframe for my modded one and sort my engine mounts ready for a test fit!
[attachment=49021:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1384787682 .501159.jpg]
Here is the the euro money pit ..
Have to admit .. I do love it.
This is an early picture and it now has it's repeaters, number plates and such.
Here is the the euro money pit ..
Have to admit .. I do love it.
This is an early picture and it now has it's repeaters, number plates and such.
carl. im not saying that type of brace wont add any rigidity, but as you say torque is on the up... and you say by 300%.
thats alot of extra load to be putting through the front chassis rails without substantial bracing.
if I where you I would adapt the OEM brace to have a coupe of 8 or 10mm plates welded top and bottom then get bracing welded to the chassis rails.... then you can slide the crossmember down the rails and bolt it in place.
im rather worried that if you choose the method above your going to get some serious cracks appearing over use with time.
thats alot of extra load to be putting through the front chassis rails without substantial bracing.
if I where you I would adapt the OEM brace to have a coupe of 8 or 10mm plates welded top and bottom then get bracing welded to the chassis rails.... then you can slide the crossmember down the rails and bolt it in place.
im rather worried that if you choose the method above your going to get some serious cracks appearing over use with time.
That's an interesting proposal, I'm pleased you're airing your concerns and offering solutions.
I will be considering your advice when actually fitting in the engine.
I'll take some pictures and I'd appreciate your input as to what you think would be the most effective bacing solution along with use of space.
You've given me plenty of food for thought.
Can you believe that some of the Americans don't bother to replace the cross member at all?!
The above reason is why I thought a replacement member at the front
(not necessarily removable but it is handy in terms of getting to things)
along with a custom x style strut brace would be at the very least better than nothing.
I will be considering your advice when actually fitting in the engine.
I'll take some pictures and I'd appreciate your input as to what you think would be the most effective bacing solution along with use of space.
You've given me plenty of food for thought.
Can you believe that some of the Americans don't bother to replace the cross member at all?!
The above reason is why I thought a replacement member at the front
(not necessarily removable but it is handy in terms of getting to things)
along with a custom x style strut brace would be at the very least better than nothing.
Have you an good pictures of the area + the engine mockup so I can have a look and see what to recommend?
I'm not very familar with the S2000 layout, but I did spend several years making spaceframes for some championship winning rally cars, so should be able to help!
I'm not very familar with the S2000 layout, but I did spend several years making spaceframes for some championship winning rally cars, so should be able to help!
http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showthread.php?130-2002-Ls2000-(Ls1-w-T56)-with-a-bunch-of-little-goodies.
Some of this guys pics are blurry but some give a good indication as to the size of the original crossmember and what it takes to take it out.
(he drilled his spot welds where as I took my time to grind them part way down, split it apart and then use a flap disc to polish them nice and flat leaving the frame rails undrilled)
http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showthread.php?130-2002-Ls2000-(Ls1-w-T56)-with-a-bunch-of-little-goodies./page7
You can see on this page how tight the fit is with the engine and the steering rack(which has been moved forward)
You can also see how the engine is mounted (I'm using a similar system but is adjustable so I don't have to take the engine in and out 5 times test fitting it. Once a desireable position has been attained I'll be welding up the sliding element.)
On the second photo of the above link you can see where the radiator sits (the lowest most far forward piece of metal, closest to the engine hoist) and where the cross member once was, This will hopefully give you an idea of the space left.
Some of this guys pics are blurry but some give a good indication as to the size of the original crossmember and what it takes to take it out.
(he drilled his spot welds where as I took my time to grind them part way down, split it apart and then use a flap disc to polish them nice and flat leaving the frame rails undrilled)
http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showthread.php?130-2002-Ls2000-(Ls1-w-T56)-with-a-bunch-of-little-goodies./page7
You can see on this page how tight the fit is with the engine and the steering rack(which has been moved forward)
You can also see how the engine is mounted (I'm using a similar system but is adjustable so I don't have to take the engine in and out 5 times test fitting it. Once a desireable position has been attained I'll be welding up the sliding element.)
On the second photo of the above link you can see where the radiator sits (the lowest most far forward piece of metal, closest to the engine hoist) and where the cross member once was, This will hopefully give you an idea of the space left.






