FIA Decision
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From: Drexel Hill, PA
^wow!
i think the driver's championship is not in question because they don't want to harm Lewis. if they strip Alonso of his points, they may have to consider doing that to Hamilton. FA is the praised two time reigning WC and LH is their special phenom.
i think McLaren knew what they were doing the whole time and they're guilty. i'm just waiting for them to bring back Coughlan and hire Stepney too.
i think the driver's championship is not in question because they don't want to harm Lewis. if they strip Alonso of his points, they may have to consider doing that to Hamilton. FA is the praised two time reigning WC and LH is their special phenom.
i think McLaren knew what they were doing the whole time and they're guilty. i'm just waiting for them to bring back Coughlan and hire Stepney too.
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From: Toronto
FIA reveal evidence against McLaren
The receipt of confidential information
14/09/07 15:56
Evidence against the McLaren Mercedes team
Formula One's governing body, the FIA, has revealed the full extent of the new spygate' evidence that prompted them to hit McLaren with a record fine and exclude them from the 2007 constructors' championship.
The evidence includes details of email and text message exchanges given to the FIA through written statements by McLaren test pilot Pedro de la Rosa and their double world champion driver Fernando Alonso.
De la Rosa, in particular, seems to have had regular contact with Mike Coughlan, the ex-McLaren chief designer who has confirmed that he received a dossier of secret Ferrari information from Nigel Stepney a former mechanic for the Italian team.
An FIA press release on Friday said: "The e-mails show unequivocally that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Stepney."
In one exchange between the two De La Rosa asks Coughlan, in a clear reference to Ferrari's all-red livery: "Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's weight distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro.
De La Rosa confirmed to the FIA that Coughlan sent him the required information via test message and he then forwarded it on to Alonso by email.
Similar exchanges between the three men took place regarding aerodynamics, tyre gas, braking systems and stopping strategy.
In addition the FIA has revealed the full amount of correspondence between Coughlan and Stepney, some of it taking place before the dossier of information was found by Italian police at Coughlan's house.
The statement reads: "The Italian police have identified logs which show 23 e-mails passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 1 March and 14 April 2007."
In total, at least 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls appear to have passed between Stepney and Coughlan between 11 March and 3 July 2007.
"In light of the number and timing of the communications between Coughlan and Stepney and the e-mail exchanges between the McLaren drivers, the WMSC regards it as reasonable to infer that Coughlan was in receipt of a flow of confidential Ferrari information from Stepney and that at least some of that information was communicated to others within McLaren."
The published evidence appears to directly contradict McLaren Boss Ron Dennis' claims that Stepney and Coughlan were acting alone and that McLaren did not benefit from the information that passed between the pair.
McLaren have not yet decided whether they will appeal their punishment.
The receipt of confidential information
14/09/07 15:56
Evidence against the McLaren Mercedes team
Formula One's governing body, the FIA, has revealed the full extent of the new spygate' evidence that prompted them to hit McLaren with a record fine and exclude them from the 2007 constructors' championship.
The evidence includes details of email and text message exchanges given to the FIA through written statements by McLaren test pilot Pedro de la Rosa and their double world champion driver Fernando Alonso.
De la Rosa, in particular, seems to have had regular contact with Mike Coughlan, the ex-McLaren chief designer who has confirmed that he received a dossier of secret Ferrari information from Nigel Stepney a former mechanic for the Italian team.
An FIA press release on Friday said: "The e-mails show unequivocally that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Stepney."
In one exchange between the two De La Rosa asks Coughlan, in a clear reference to Ferrari's all-red livery: "Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's weight distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro.
De La Rosa confirmed to the FIA that Coughlan sent him the required information via test message and he then forwarded it on to Alonso by email.
Similar exchanges between the three men took place regarding aerodynamics, tyre gas, braking systems and stopping strategy.
In addition the FIA has revealed the full amount of correspondence between Coughlan and Stepney, some of it taking place before the dossier of information was found by Italian police at Coughlan's house.
The statement reads: "The Italian police have identified logs which show 23 e-mails passed between Coughlan and Stepney between 1 March and 14 April 2007."
In total, at least 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls appear to have passed between Stepney and Coughlan between 11 March and 3 July 2007.
"In light of the number and timing of the communications between Coughlan and Stepney and the e-mail exchanges between the McLaren drivers, the WMSC regards it as reasonable to infer that Coughlan was in receipt of a flow of confidential Ferrari information from Stepney and that at least some of that information was communicated to others within McLaren."
The published evidence appears to directly contradict McLaren Boss Ron Dennis' claims that Stepney and Coughlan were acting alone and that McLaren did not benefit from the information that passed between the pair.
McLaren have not yet decided whether they will appeal their punishment.
Does any one honestly still think that FA/LH deserve to be challenging KR and FM for the title?
I don't....
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From: C-Squat, NY
Originally Posted by matrix,Sep 14 2007, 08:42 AM
De la Rosa then pertinently concludes: "All the information from Ferrari is very reliable.
"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.
"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping on lap 18.
"He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer, and he told him that."
"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.
"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping on lap 18.
"He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer, and he told him that."
I'll never say that the FIA favors Ferrari ever again.
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From: Del Boca Vista
Good stuff, Matrix. Complete CRAP that the drivers walk away without penalty... Pure politics related to the FIA's LH windfall.
The fine? McLaren will whine about it, but it's mouse-nuts in the big picture when you consider the $500M+ annual budget for an F1 team.
Call me the perpetual skeptic, but I find it very difficult to believe, given the evidence we've seen, that the info Coughlin obtained had no positive impact on the performance of the MP4-22 this year, however insignificant that impact may have been. If the performance of the car has been improved under these circumstances, then the performance of the drivers should be nullified since they used tainted equipment to compete so strongly thus far...
It's a huge shame, and very interesting to now see McLaren pointing fingers at Renault for doing the same stuff. Pot, kettle, black... Interesting to see how McLaren tap-dances around the double-standard.
The fine? McLaren will whine about it, but it's mouse-nuts in the big picture when you consider the $500M+ annual budget for an F1 team.
Call me the perpetual skeptic, but I find it very difficult to believe, given the evidence we've seen, that the info Coughlin obtained had no positive impact on the performance of the MP4-22 this year, however insignificant that impact may have been. If the performance of the car has been improved under these circumstances, then the performance of the drivers should be nullified since they used tainted equipment to compete so strongly thus far...
It's a huge shame, and very interesting to now see McLaren pointing fingers at Renault for doing the same stuff. Pot, kettle, black... Interesting to see how McLaren tap-dances around the double-standard.
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by matrix,Sep 13 2007, 04:31 PM
4 - If McLaren wins, drivers are not allowed on the podium? Good lord, if they win, put them on the podium since they get the points anyway. What is the purpose of this penalty????
It says we do not condone cheating. The Drivers are getting enough, they get to keep their points and compete for the Driver's Championship, but they don't have to be honored.
I have no love for McLaren, it's too bad for the drivers, but oh well, they are indeed getting their points...
Ronnie
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Sep 13 2007, 04:41 PM
No, I think the drivers get to go up there. But there will be no constructor's trophy.
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by matrix,Sep 14 2007, 08:42 AM
Can someone please explain to me how the driver's championship is not in question????
Again, dude, you knew that
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From: Second City
From the full FIA statement, it looks like the FIA traded driver's points immunity for evidence. FA and PDLR had evidence they shared. LH didn't have share any. I wonder if he actually had any evidence though...because if he did and if the FIA ever finds it...
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by patinum,Sep 14 2007, 12:19 PM
it looks like the FIA traded driver's points immunity for evidence.