FIA Decision
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by Triple-H,Sep 14 2007, 03:18 PM
^ And you would think with Vodophone as their sponsor they could have done a better job hiding emails and text messages and phone calls... 
True Pen, as well as
- lyres anonymous - we can help you come to terms with your dishonesty
- crooked copy co - we'll copy anything for anybody and tell nobody
- private corporate thief - when we steal shit nobody knows about it
True Pen, as well as
- lyres anonymous - we can help you come to terms with your dishonesty
- crooked copy co - we'll copy anything for anybody and tell nobody
- private corporate thief - when we steal shit nobody knows about it
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From: Newport Beach
Originally Posted by matrix,Sep 13 2007, 12:13 PM
No real surprise when the French & Italians get together.
Bernie Ecclestone is not French or Italian.
Max Mosley is not French or Italian.
Nigel Stepney is not French or Italian.
Mike Coughlan is not French or Italian.
Ron Dennis is not French or Italian.
Fernando Alonso is not French or Italian.
Pedro De La Rosa is not French or Italian.
And I will bet the majority of the FIA are not French or Italian.
Guess none of those people were not involved in any of this....
PS are you really surprised that a team with ALL the technical specs, testing information, strategy, etc. from the 2 top teams in F1 is leading the standing?
Odd how that same team are also the ONLY team in F1 to have access to all that information from 2 teams.
Odd how that same team was able to scrutinize all the information about the OTHER team but that same OTHER team was not allow to scrutinize their info.
That sounds like a fair situation to me.....
Bernie Ecclestone is not French or Italian.
Max Mosley is not French or Italian.
Nigel Stepney is not French or Italian.
Mike Coughlan is not French or Italian.
Ron Dennis is not French or Italian.
Fernando Alonso is not French or Italian.
Pedro De La Rosa is not French or Italian.
And I will bet the majority of the FIA are not French or Italian.
Guess none of those people were not involved in any of this....
PS are you really surprised that a team with ALL the technical specs, testing information, strategy, etc. from the 2 top teams in F1 is leading the standing?
Odd how that same team are also the ONLY team in F1 to have access to all that information from 2 teams.
Odd how that same team was able to scrutinize all the information about the OTHER team but that same OTHER team was not allow to scrutinize their info.
That sounds like a fair situation to me.....
Remember a Ferrari employee started this whole shlt. Ferrari as a business (for those who ever dealt with a Ferrari road car purchase will understand this) and their usual Italian way of doing things allowed private company documents to leave the company. Nobody knows the true formula for Coca Cola but this stooge was allowed to have such privy information and share it with Mercedes (wink wink) give me a f_cking break. This was planned by Ferrari to recoup a butt hurt of a season.
Their Chairman Luca admitted he got thru college by copying others work and admitted this to a graduating college. He was very proud of this. He also claimed to be very hapy to win the WC this way. Indy all over again , hey we beat Minardi we are so proud.This goes to show the character of this team . On the other hand Dr Theissen at BMW said he was not happy to get second place this way.
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by WFO Racer,Sep 15 2007, 01:13 AM
Remember a Ferrari employee started this whole shlt.
But they didn't do that did they?
Nope, they decided to use that information for gain, which is exactly why they are in the position they are in.
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From: Del Boca Vista
Could Ferrari have purposely decided to supply misinformation to Coughlin via Stepney to implicate McLaren in a scandal to win the Championship? I suppose so, but man, that's really reaching....
I'm not sure how Ferrari accepting the Constructor's Championship as a result of McLaren's treachery shows their true colors. Ferrari fired Stepney (McLaren only suspended Coughlin) and aside from the leak by Stepney, there is no evidence that anyone else on the team had any role in this mess. McLaren cannot say the same, but yet we should give them the benefit of the doubt... Right.
McLaren vehemently denies using the technical docs, yet the info was circulated to the WC and one of their test drivers. How and why would that happen if the info remained in Coughlin's home and was not at least reviewed by members of the McLaren team? Even a little lie is still a lie. (Back to my argument that any possession or distribution of elicit materials represents "use")
And what should Ferrari say? "Nah, we don't want the Constructor's Championship. Go ahead and give it to BMW." I don't think anyone said they are happy to win this way... they said that, under the circumstances, they will accept the crown despite dubious events...
If Ron Dennis is so noble to alert the FIA about the new evidence, why would he not have done as much the moment he learned that Coughlin had received the docs? Right.
I have no sympathy or respect for the McLaren team or its individual members because no one bothered to cough up the illicit materials until after the fecal material collided with the rotational wind machine. They certainly tried to get away with something... not exactly a behavior I would expect from a team portraying itself as forthright and sportsmanlike.
But just like the Belichik BS going on in the NFL... perhaps ALL teams engage in some manner of espionage, but for the folks that get caught, that's just too damned bad.
I'm not sure how Ferrari accepting the Constructor's Championship as a result of McLaren's treachery shows their true colors. Ferrari fired Stepney (McLaren only suspended Coughlin) and aside from the leak by Stepney, there is no evidence that anyone else on the team had any role in this mess. McLaren cannot say the same, but yet we should give them the benefit of the doubt... Right.
McLaren vehemently denies using the technical docs, yet the info was circulated to the WC and one of their test drivers. How and why would that happen if the info remained in Coughlin's home and was not at least reviewed by members of the McLaren team? Even a little lie is still a lie. (Back to my argument that any possession or distribution of elicit materials represents "use")
And what should Ferrari say? "Nah, we don't want the Constructor's Championship. Go ahead and give it to BMW." I don't think anyone said they are happy to win this way... they said that, under the circumstances, they will accept the crown despite dubious events...
If Ron Dennis is so noble to alert the FIA about the new evidence, why would he not have done as much the moment he learned that Coughlin had received the docs? Right.
I have no sympathy or respect for the McLaren team or its individual members because no one bothered to cough up the illicit materials until after the fecal material collided with the rotational wind machine. They certainly tried to get away with something... not exactly a behavior I would expect from a team portraying itself as forthright and sportsmanlike.
But just like the Belichik BS going on in the NFL... perhaps ALL teams engage in some manner of espionage, but for the folks that get caught, that's just too damned bad.
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From: La Habra
I think Ron Dennis had no choice because Alonso was blackmailing the team to put him in the champion position. The only part of that I don't get is how come Alonso didn't get a flat tire or such in Quali today?
I have to believe it was Alonso's (and PdR's) testimony that led to the penalties. One week the FIA is letting the matter rest and the next week $100M and zero WC points.
I have to believe it was Alonso's (and PdR's) testimony that led to the penalties. One week the FIA is letting the matter rest and the next week $100M and zero WC points.
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From: Del Boca Vista
Had the new evidence not surfaced in the form of the driver emails, we would not have seen any significant penalties in Paris last week.
So Ron Dennis' noble gesture of disclosure single-handedly ensured the penalties...
So Ron Dennis' noble gesture of disclosure single-handedly ensured the penalties...
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From: Toronto
I don't believe RD's gesture was so noble as he is making out.
Remember, one of McLaren's defenses at the first hearing was that they installed a firewall to block communications between MC and NS. So he already knew there was communications. Are we to believe that they installed these firewalls without knowing what the emails contained?
Also regarding Alonso, why hasn't RD put FA on the same pedestal he tried to put NS on? After all "whistleblowers" are to be applauded according to RD.
And finally, will FA be able to claim the reward the FIA was offering for whistleblowers?
Remember, one of McLaren's defenses at the first hearing was that they installed a firewall to block communications between MC and NS. So he already knew there was communications. Are we to believe that they installed these firewalls without knowing what the emails contained?
Also regarding Alonso, why hasn't RD put FA on the same pedestal he tried to put NS on? After all "whistleblowers" are to be applauded according to RD.
And finally, will FA be able to claim the reward the FIA was offering for whistleblowers?
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At a race preview party on Saturday night in Aachen hosted by Peter Windsor, he stated his feeling that no fine of any kind should have been imposed on McLaren, and I agree whole-heartedly.
If a disgruntled FBI employee turns over sensitive information about US security to China, is that China's fault or the FBI's?
The FIA went way overboard on this and its effects were clearly evident in Sunday's race. There was a somber feeling all over the paddock and the entire race seemed to lack "heart" or real "enthusiasm."
If a disgruntled FBI employee turns over sensitive information about US security to China, is that China's fault or the FBI's?
The FIA went way overboard on this and its effects were clearly evident in Sunday's race. There was a somber feeling all over the paddock and the entire race seemed to lack "heart" or real "enthusiasm."
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From: La Habra
China and America are not competing in a sport. F1 racing is a sport. Sportsmanship says the team that gets insider information is at fault for not immediately exposing the spy. This penalty is not THAT harsh, more like $50M after season-finishing adjustment.
I don't know what race you were watching but Spa was filled with enthusiasm. How about the first corner antics between Alonso and Hamilton? Since we KNOW Alonso wasn't cruising, Kimi and Fellipe were pushing hard. How about all that action between Kovalainen and Kubica? No lack of passion there. Sounds to me like YOU were bummed out by the FIA decision but none of the drivers telephoned this one in.
I don't know what race you were watching but Spa was filled with enthusiasm. How about the first corner antics between Alonso and Hamilton? Since we KNOW Alonso wasn't cruising, Kimi and Fellipe were pushing hard. How about all that action between Kovalainen and Kubica? No lack of passion there. Sounds to me like YOU were bummed out by the FIA decision but none of the drivers telephoned this one in.