Lexus Performance Credibility
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Originally Posted by whiteflash,Jan 9 2011, 08:28 PM
I find it funny that Lexus is often compared to BMW, and MB.... and while their vehicles may attempt to do many similar things, at similar pricepoints their brands are wildly different. Lexus is however comparable to Audi.
Let's first of all think about what Lexus is. Lexus is first and foremost, an upgraded Toyota. These aren't exactly original chassis', original designs. BMW is it's mainstream brand, same with Mercedes (although they do have Maybach, but that's so out there it's not even relevant to this convorsation).
First off I want to say of all the mainstream German flavors, Audi is my overall favorite. I love their design, their interior, their performance.... the total package to me. However, I'm not one to fool myself into thinking that the Audi 'racing' line is quite at the same level as its M and AMG counter-parts. Quite frankly, you can only take a DD VW chassis/design and push it so far, before you hit its limits, the same can be said for Lexus performance being bred from its lower level Toyota brethren.
In short I think Lexus shoulda not over-extend itself, and continue to do what they do, as they do it quite well. They're well engineered, good looking, comfortable, technological, and most their most important asset; reliable. IMO the only way for Lexus/Audi to really directly compete against MB/BMW would be to design their cars from the top of the tree down, but this would put a strain on their cash-cow, lower end markets as those prices would likely jump.
In short, unless Lexus seperated itself completely from Toyota, I see no problem with its current brand structure.
Let's first of all think about what Lexus is. Lexus is first and foremost, an upgraded Toyota. These aren't exactly original chassis', original designs. BMW is it's mainstream brand, same with Mercedes (although they do have Maybach, but that's so out there it's not even relevant to this convorsation).
First off I want to say of all the mainstream German flavors, Audi is my overall favorite. I love their design, their interior, their performance.... the total package to me. However, I'm not one to fool myself into thinking that the Audi 'racing' line is quite at the same level as its M and AMG counter-parts. Quite frankly, you can only take a DD VW chassis/design and push it so far, before you hit its limits, the same can be said for Lexus performance being bred from its lower level Toyota brethren.
In short I think Lexus shoulda not over-extend itself, and continue to do what they do, as they do it quite well. They're well engineered, good looking, comfortable, technological, and most their most important asset; reliable. IMO the only way for Lexus/Audi to really directly compete against MB/BMW would be to design their cars from the top of the tree down, but this would put a strain on their cash-cow, lower end markets as those prices would likely jump.
In short, unless Lexus seperated itself completely from Toyota, I see no problem with its current brand structure.
Do they freking care weather they racing line is beating bmw or audi? cars that fall apart in 2 yrs. Cars with the worst rating for reliability OUT OF EVERY AUTO MAKER IN THE WORLD. answer: no they dont care.
while bmw is working on making there m series better lexus is spinning circles around audi and bmw. most lexus are rebaged toyotas anyway.
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I thought the 8 spd auto in the IS-F was better than the SMG in BMW's etc. Smooth at low speed and still shifted fast and direct when accelerating through the gears. If you held a gun to my head and made me pick the V8 M3 sedan or IS-F I would pick the M3 but the IS-F is pretty freaking sweet.
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From: North Richland Hills, TX
Originally Posted by exb00st,Jan 10 2011, 05:16 PM
Isn't BMW using the DCT in their new cars?
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From: North Richland Hills, TX
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower,Jan 10 2011, 05:11 PM
I thought the 8 spd auto in the IS-F was better than the SMG in BMW's etc. Smooth at low speed and still shifted fast and direct when accelerating through the gears. If you held a gun to my head and made me pick the V8 M3 sedan or IS-F I would pick the M3 but the IS-F is pretty freaking sweet.
BMW's SMG's (predecessor to the DCT) are kind of rough for ordinary use, but seem to work well for track use.
I've never owned a car w/ an auto tranny, but I wouldn't object to having one like the IS'-F's.
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From: Toronto
Its pretty simple. Unless, a car manufacturer is successfull in motorsports they will not excel in making proper sports cars. Engineering innovations from motorsports always trickle down into road cars.
Toyota/Lexus have had really bad experiences in motorsports. They threw more money than god at F1 and did not win a single race. At one point, Toyota F1 had the largest budget in F1 which says alot when you have Ferrari and McLaren there too.
On the other hand, Honda (F1, Indy etc), Audi (WRC, DTM), MB(F1,DTM etc) BMW(F1, DTM etc) and many more had huge successes in motorsports and are able to use that same R&D in making proper sports cars. In a nutshell, they know what works.
Toyota/Lexus have had really bad experiences in motorsports. They threw more money than god at F1 and did not win a single race. At one point, Toyota F1 had the largest budget in F1 which says alot when you have Ferrari and McLaren there too.
On the other hand, Honda (F1, Indy etc), Audi (WRC, DTM), MB(F1,DTM etc) BMW(F1, DTM etc) and many more had huge successes in motorsports and are able to use that same R&D in making proper sports cars. In a nutshell, they know what works.
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Originally Posted by Diabl0,Jan 10 2011, 06:13 PM
Its pretty simple. Unless, a car manufacturer is successfull in motorsports they will not excel in making proper sports cars. Engineering innovations from motorsports always trickle down into road cars.
Toyota/Lexus have had really bad experiences in motorsports. They threw more money than god at F1 and did not win a single race. At one point, Toyota F1 had the largest budget in F1 which says alot when you have Ferrari and McLaren there too.
On the other hand, Honda (F1, Indy etc), Audi (WRC, DTM), MB(F1,DTM etc) BMW(F1, DTM etc) and many more had huge successes in motorsports and are able to use that same R&D in making proper sports cars. In a nutshell, they know what works.
Toyota/Lexus have had really bad experiences in motorsports. They threw more money than god at F1 and did not win a single race. At one point, Toyota F1 had the largest budget in F1 which says alot when you have Ferrari and McLaren there too.
On the other hand, Honda (F1, Indy etc), Audi (WRC, DTM), MB(F1,DTM etc) BMW(F1, DTM etc) and many more had huge successes in motorsports and are able to use that same R&D in making proper sports cars. In a nutshell, they know what works.
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Unless, a car manufacturer is successfull in motorsports they will not excel in making proper sports cars. Engineering innovations from motorsports always trickle down into road cars.
But I think more than the engineering innovations learned/developed in racing it is the culture of a company that supports racing also foster a better environment and passion for sports car development.
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From: Queen City, NC
I prefer Lamborghini's "we make torrid cars and also will take them to a track" philosophy to Ferrari's "we make racing instruments and will sell them to the private sector". Both makes use similar technologies to achieve their ends with or without heavy racing involvement.
