Lexus Performance Credibility
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Originally Posted by Saki GT,Jan 12 2011, 09:00 AM
I'm under the understanding that other than the ES, no Lexus shares much with a Toyota. Lexus was mainly a US brand for 20 years, just now being offered in Japan.
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Originally Posted by exb00st,Jan 12 2011, 09:13 AM
What about the Land Cruiser/LX? 4-Runner/GX?
Thanks for the vids, Gymkata... I must admit that they were a bit painful to watch.
Thanks for the vids, Gymkata... I must admit that they were a bit painful to watch.
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Also, winning races depends a lot on the drivers too. For example, without the talent of Kyle Busch, Toyota wouldn't have won nearly as many races in NASCAR; their other drivers have not won many races even though they have the same cars. The talent of M. Schumacher counted a lot for Ferrari too. Winning races depends half on the car, half on the driver (give and take a bit on each side).
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Originally Posted by whiteflash,Jan 9 2011, 08:28 PM
I find it funny that Lexus is often compared to BMW, and MB.... and while their vehicles may attempt to do many similar things, at similar pricepoints their brands are wildly different. Lexus is however comparable to Audi.
Let's first of all think about what Lexus is. Lexus is first and foremost, an upgraded Toyota. These aren't exactly original chassis', original designs. BMW is it's mainstream brand, same with Mercedes (although they do have Maybach, but that's so out there it's not even relevant to this convorsation).
First off I want to say of all the mainstream German flavors, Audi is my overall favorite. I love their design, their interior, their performance.... the total package to me. However, I'm not one to fool myself into thinking that the Audi 'racing' line is quite at the same level as its M and AMG counter-parts. Quite frankly, you can only take a DD VW chassis/design and push it so far, before you hit its limits, the same can be said for Lexus performance being bred from its lower level Toyota brethren.
In short I think Lexus shoulda not over-extend itself, and continue to do what they do, as they do it quite well. They're well engineered, good looking, comfortable, technological, and most their most important asset; reliable. IMO the only way for Lexus/Audi to really directly compete against MB/BMW would be to design their cars from the top of the tree down, but this would put a strain on their cash-cow, lower end markets as those prices would likely jump.
In short, unless Lexus seperated itself completely from Toyota, I see no problem with its current brand structure.
Let's first of all think about what Lexus is. Lexus is first and foremost, an upgraded Toyota. These aren't exactly original chassis', original designs. BMW is it's mainstream brand, same with Mercedes (although they do have Maybach, but that's so out there it's not even relevant to this convorsation).
First off I want to say of all the mainstream German flavors, Audi is my overall favorite. I love their design, their interior, their performance.... the total package to me. However, I'm not one to fool myself into thinking that the Audi 'racing' line is quite at the same level as its M and AMG counter-parts. Quite frankly, you can only take a DD VW chassis/design and push it so far, before you hit its limits, the same can be said for Lexus performance being bred from its lower level Toyota brethren.
In short I think Lexus shoulda not over-extend itself, and continue to do what they do, as they do it quite well. They're well engineered, good looking, comfortable, technological, and most their most important asset; reliable. IMO the only way for Lexus/Audi to really directly compete against MB/BMW would be to design their cars from the top of the tree down, but this would put a strain on their cash-cow, lower end markets as those prices would likely jump.
In short, unless Lexus seperated itself completely from Toyota, I see no problem with its current brand structure.
Sam
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by BPUKiller,Jan 12 2011, 04:45 PM
Wow. Lexus is just an upgraded Toyota?? That the lamest argument out there shows how little you know. Lexus only shares one platform with Toyota and that's the ES350 and maybe the h. All other platforms, front engine, rear-wheel drive, are purely Lexus. I've owned a Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus is the best out of all of them in terms of overall owners experience mainly because they always work and dollar for dollar give you the highest quality and luxury. That's why I've had every car in their inventory at one time or another except a GX, h, or LX.
Sam
Sam
it's amazing how much misinformation is taken as fact on the internet. I'm not saying I know all the facts because I certainly don't, but there are SO many things that the general population (incl myself at times) believes to be true, but they aren't.
Like...
-Lexus models share platforms with toyotas (not true as you pointed out)
-Nissan, Lexus, Audi, MB, Cadillac, etc "can't" beat BMW (the scoring is biased towards things that BMW has staked out as their brand identity...and it sells magazines. No one likes a style contest or a mileage contest or a run-it-till-it-dies contest or a price contest. If those companies decided they were going to abandon their brand identities and shoot to take down BMW in the performance measures that magazines measure, then BMW would have their hands full)
-GM doesn't spend money on corvette interiors (see active thread...apparently they spend a fair amount of money; it just isn't designed in a way that reflects the dollars spent)
it's pretty amazing
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Originally Posted by woodburn,Jan 12 2011, 02:27 AM
How many lexus are sold as toyotas in japan? are they really made for the us line of cars called lexus? or are they toyotas that they thought should be sold as a lexus in the us so they rebadged them but still sell them as toyota else where. Are these lexus built off the same platform as toyotas or ARE they toyotas? they still have the same navi, leather, options, etc..but they have a toyotas sign?
Same can be said about the acura line-up. Is the tsx different than a japan or euro accord?
Same can be said about the acura line-up. Is the tsx different than a japan or euro accord?
And to say LFA technology will not trickle down to the rest of the line is silly and Lexus could do that if they so desired. Similar to what Honda did with the NSX.
Lexus is more than capable of producing sports cars if that what their business plan calls for (they have proven that already).
Also, to say Toyota has no racing heritage is silly as well. As mentioned, they have been successful in NASCAR and in Truck Series racing (I forget what it is officially called).
Even if this was not the case, do we really believe the Japanese are not smart enough to incorporate the latest manufacturing technologies to create a German sports car competitor? The last Supra model was a technilogical marvel in its day and BMW/Audi etc... had nothing in their lineup that could compare to it or all the other Japenese super cars of the early 90's for that matter.
This thread is full of interesting comments to say the least but what really gets me is how people marginalize Lexus' capabilities in creating sporty vehicles that can easily obtain 200,000 miles while still offering a fun factor. Are you kidding me?
IMO the ISF was a good shot out the gate and will only get better. At least Lexus is addressing the sports car market. However the same can't be said for Honda 
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From: Tampa Florida
Originally Posted by dombey,Jan 12 2011, 08:49 PM
it's amazing how much misinformation is taken as fact on the internet. I'm not saying I know all the facts because I certainly don't, but there are SO many things that the general population (incl myself at times) believes to be true, but they aren't.
Like...
-Lexus models share platforms with toyotas (not true as you pointed out)
-Nissan, Lexus, Audi, MB, Cadillac, etc "can't" beat BMW (the scoring is biased towards things that BMW has staked out as their brand identity...and it sells magazines. No one likes a style contest or a mileage contest or a run-it-till-it-dies contest or a price contest. If those companies decided they were going to abandon their brand identities and shoot to take down BMW in the performance measures that magazines measure, then BMW would have their hands full)
-GM doesn't spend money on corvette interiors (see active thread...apparently they spend a fair amount of money; it just isn't designed in a way that reflects the dollars spent)
it's pretty amazing
Additionally, some of the things that made me choose the ISF over the M3 when I was in the market were:
Fun factor, yeah it may not do everything the M3 does (remains the benchmark of the industry) but it is close enough, just as fast and handles as well as I would reasonably push it.
Quality, c'mon its a Lexus and build quality translates well over the long term with this brand (it's proven)
Resale value, see above
No gas guzzler tax yet high performance capabilties. I avg. 24 mpg on the hwy and love it.
Value, I would have 5 to 7 grand more at that time, for a similarly equipped M3; NAV, DCT etc...
Looks, although that is purely subjective, I prefer the look of the ISF over the M3 sedan and I needed four doors ( kid=reason why I got rid of the S2k)
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Originally Posted by duboseq,Jan 12 2011, 10:11 PM
And to say LFA technology will not trickle down to the rest of the line is silly and Lexus could do that if they so desired. Similar to what Honda did with the NSX.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_in_motorsports
Toyota has been involved in a number of motorsport activities, most notably in Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, Champ Car, sports car racing and rallying. Currently, Toyota participates in Toyota Racing Series, Formula Nippon, Formula Three, NHRA, Grand Am, USAC, Super GT and NASCAR.
It's had a lot of victories in its racing history, despite the misinformation spewed earlier.
Toyota has been involved in a number of motorsport activities, most notably in Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, Champ Car, sports car racing and rallying. Currently, Toyota participates in Toyota Racing Series, Formula Nippon, Formula Three, NHRA, Grand Am, USAC, Super GT and NASCAR.
It's had a lot of victories in its racing history, despite the misinformation spewed earlier.
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Originally Posted by Steponme,Jan 12 2011, 11:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_in_motorsports
Toyota has been involved in a number of motorsport activities, most notably in Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, Champ Car, sports car racing and rallying. Currently, Toyota participates in Toyota Racing Series, Formula Nippon, Formula Three, NHRA, Grand Am, USAC, Super GT and NASCAR.
It's had a lot of victories in its racing history, despite the misinformation spewed earlier.
Toyota has been involved in a number of motorsport activities, most notably in Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, Champ Car, sports car racing and rallying. Currently, Toyota participates in Toyota Racing Series, Formula Nippon, Formula Three, NHRA, Grand Am, USAC, Super GT and NASCAR.
It's had a lot of victories in its racing history, despite the misinformation spewed earlier.