Car Talk - Non S2000 General Motoring and Non S2000 Car Talk

The Formula 1 Thread - 2012

Thread Tools
 
Old Mar 26, 2012 | 09:42 AM
  #241  
gaddafi's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 31,739
Likes: 69
From: Survivalist enclave
Default

Originally Posted by san2000
Is it just me or was Vettel behaving like a spoilt brat in his post-race interview re: the HRT?

I'm still trying to work out who was at fault for the incident, but looking at the racing line, it seems to me that it was Vettel who cut across.

And the fact he did something quite similar to Webber 3 years ago (and blamed Webber for it, even though I think he was at fault there too) smacks of hypocrisy.
He's just coming to terms with something that happens to most drivers eventually

That is, the realisation that the car is 90% of the winning equation

And that he is not uniquely talented

There are exceptions

He isn't one of them
Reply
Old Mar 26, 2012 | 09:49 AM
  #242  
gbduo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
From: Southampton/Reading
Default

Originally Posted by gaddafi
Originally Posted by san2000' timestamp='1332763532' post='21543779
Is it just me or was Vettel behaving like a spoilt brat in his post-race interview re: the HRT?

I'm still trying to work out who was at fault for the incident, but looking at the racing line, it seems to me that it was Vettel who cut across.

And the fact he did something quite similar to Webber 3 years ago (and blamed Webber for it, even though I think he was at fault there too) smacks of hypocrisy.
He's just coming to terms with something that happens to most drivers eventually

That is, the realisation that the car is 90% of the winning equation

And that he is not uniquely talented

There are exceptions

He isn't one of them
Senna is a good exception, lol!
Reply
Old Mar 26, 2012 | 10:10 AM
  #243  
s2k_Nut's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 0
From: Here and awake!
Default

Originally Posted by gaddafi
Originally Posted by san2000' timestamp='1332763532' post='21543779
Is it just me or was Vettel behaving like a spoilt brat in his post-race interview re: the HRT?

I'm still trying to work out who was at fault for the incident, but looking at the racing line, it seems to me that it was Vettel who cut across.

And the fact he did something quite similar to Webber 3 years ago (and blamed Webber for it, even though I think he was at fault there too) smacks of hypocrisy.
He's just coming to terms with something that happens to most drivers eventually

That is, the realisation that the car is 90% of the winning equation

And that he is not uniquely talented

There are exceptions

He isn't one of them
Yeah I would agree with all of that, it was interesting though how Button reacted towards Kartekaen (I think) when he got the damage to his car 'yeah it was totally my fault', he could just as easily have blamed the other driver as Vettel did but chose not to. Vettel is frustrated on a couple of levels, as Gadaffi mentions his realisation that his car is no longer dominant, his team mate can drive this car just as well as he can (driver aide (braking) diffuser now banned), he now has to stop believing the hype written about him.

Bruno Senna is not an exception, he is a good driver and I really want him to do well, that Williams looks pretty impressive, but the Lotus and the Sauber are superb right now., Sergio and Kimi are damned impressive too.
Reply
Old Mar 26, 2012 | 11:20 AM
  #244  
LTB's Avatar
LTB
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,747
Likes: 1
From: South Coast
Default

Button's response was a breath of fresh air and it was good to see him take complete blame for the incident.

It's interesting, as if it was Hamilton who had smashed his front wing off or who had given the finger to another driver then called him an idiot in the press interviews afterwards, then the media reaction would have been significantly different I feel.

I also thought that Hamilton had a decent race. His chance of any win was taken away by several bothced pit stops, but he seemed content to take 3rd. A distinct difference from last season where he may have pushed too hard and come away with nothing. He certainly isn't racing Perez for the championship and I'm not sure Alonso has a fair chance with that car, although you never know as he is a class act. Hamilton will win races this year, the important thing is that he scores good points in those races that he doesn't win.

Great to see Senna doing well in the Williams.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 04:08 AM
  #245  
Croc's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,026
Likes: 10
From: Israel
Default

Senna - nice chap and know how to drive. good for him that eventually he had an opportunity to show it. is he exceptional? probably not

Massa - a shame. performance difference with Alonso is just too great and painfull to see.

Alonso - is a true champ.

Raikonen - a good one too.

Perez - what a race!!! need more expirience though. i think for him it's not good to go to Ferrari now - worse car, far worse treatment.

Button - a real gentlemen. a fast one too.

Hamilton - fast and furios but nothing works for him for some reason....

Kartekian - need to get a big penalty. he've put himself in a way of other fast cars too many times during last two weekends. Even with Jensen - what's the point to fight feercely on the track with top 3 teams? this will only create dagerous situations...

Kartekian #2 - he's again faster than his team mate !!! (last time was at India GP)

Marussia - how the hell they stil in front of Caterham???? it's a fact - they have better performance then we notice.

Red Bulls - back to reality. i think they will kick back. but at least this year championships will not be so easy (for any of the teams)

Mercedes - what's going on???????

FI-Sahara - Di Resta smart, but Hulkenberg seems to be really good too. might be even faster than Di Resta.

Grojean - what's up with you boy?????
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 08:11 AM
  #246  
Ultra_Nexus's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,330
Likes: 0
From: Frustration
Default

Originally Posted by gaddafi
That is, the realisation that the car is 90% of the winning equation
Being awfully generous to the driver isn't it?

In days of old, perhaps it was as high as that, but with all the data and telemetry you can analyse now, it just isn't that high.

But if Felipe is 0.5seconds slower, per lap, than Alonso, then the difference is actually only between 0.5 - 1%

I'll give you another 2% for how a driver manages what is going on in the race, but he does have a team of hundreds behind him helping.

I'd say that the driver contributes 3-4% of the package.

Don't get me wrong, it's still 3-4% you need

As for Karthikeyan, he didn't do anything wrong....at all.

No matter who is behind you, when it's for position, you aren't going to just let someone past. I'm not saying do a Schumi, but you don't just jump out of the way as if you were being lapped!!

And I am still yet to draw a conclusion over whether Sauber let Alonso win. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, but the last one where Alonso, the outsider, won the race, the theory was proven a fact.

Forget about the mistake from SP, it was the pit call that gets me. Slicks were faster (everyone knew as Ricciardo had been on them for 3 laps/5 minutes). You are running close to the leader and are substantially quicker. He pits, so you cover that pit - if it rains again, you are both in the same....er...boat

They say that they were expecting rain...yadda yadda...right tyre at the right time. The time was right for slicks. His inters were pretty much slicks anyway.

It just doesn't add up and I cannot believe incompetence to be the cause of such a basic error.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 10:17 AM
  #247  
Dembo's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,112
Likes: 2
From: Banbury, Oxfordshire
Default

Originally Posted by Ultra_Nexus
As for Karthikeyan, he didn't do anything wrong....at all.

No matter who is behind you, when it's for position, you aren't going to just let someone past. I'm not saying do a Schumi, but you don't just jump out of the way as if you were being lapped!!
It looked to me like Vettel was past, and then cut back across too soon. But the stewards gave a penalty to Karthikeyan, and they have access to more camera angles and telemetary so probably had a reason.

And I am still yet to draw a conclusion over whether Sauber let Alonso win. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, but the last one where Alonso, the outsider, won the race, the theory was proven a fact.

Forget about the mistake from SP, it was the pit call that gets me. Slicks were faster (everyone knew as Ricciardo had been on them for 3 laps/5 minutes). You are running close to the leader and are substantially quicker. He pits, so you cover that pit - if it rains again, you are both in the same....er...boat

They say that they were expecting rain...yadda yadda...right tyre at the right time. The time was right for slicks. His inters were pretty much slicks anyway.

It just doesn't add up and I cannot believe incompetence to be the cause of such a basic error.
yes but staying out on rain tyres on a track that's still damp is safer, and Sauber had good reason to play it safe. Plus Perez has done well out of making tyres last, so maybe this was just their strategy and they were planning a shorter final stint. Or maybe they just screwed up. Either way, it's a bit of a leap to think it must be some kind of conspiracy between two independent teams. Perez was pushing Alonso pretty hard.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 10:32 AM
  #248  
s2k_Nut's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 0
From: Here and awake!
Default

Originally Posted by Dembo
Originally Posted by Ultra_Nexus' timestamp='1332951110' post='21552173
As for Karthikeyan, he didn't do anything wrong....at all.

No matter who is behind you, when it's for position, you aren't going to just let someone past. I'm not saying do a Schumi, but you don't just jump out of the way as if you were being lapped!!
It looked to me like Vettel was past, and then cut back across too soon. But the stewards gave a penalty to Karthikeyan, and they have access to more camera angles and telemetary so probably had a reason.

And I am still yet to draw a conclusion over whether Sauber let Alonso win. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, but the last one where Alonso, the outsider, won the race, the theory was proven a fact.

Forget about the mistake from SP, it was the pit call that gets me. Slicks were faster (everyone knew as Ricciardo had been on them for 3 laps/5 minutes). You are running close to the leader and are substantially quicker. He pits, so you cover that pit - if it rains again, you are both in the same....er...boat

They say that they were expecting rain...yadda yadda...right tyre at the right time. The time was right for slicks. His inters were pretty much slicks anyway.

It just doesn't add up and I cannot believe incompetence to be the cause of such a basic error.
yes but staying out on rain tyres on a track that's still damp is safer, and Sauber had good reason to play it safe. Plus Perez has done well out of making tyres last, so maybe this was just their strategy and they were planning a shorter final stint. Or maybe they just screwed up. Either way, it's a bit of a leap to think it must be some kind of conspiracy between two independent teams. Perez was pushing Alonso pretty hard.
How is he (perez) able to do that? he must have an incredible style not to wear his tyres, I just find it amazing how he makes his tyres last so long ... great drive on Sunday.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2012 | 03:50 PM
  #249  
Ultra_Nexus's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,330
Likes: 0
From: Frustration
Default

Originally Posted by Dembo
Originally Posted by Ultra_Nexus' timestamp='1332951110' post='21552173
As for Karthikeyan, he didn't do anything wrong....at all.

No matter who is behind you, when it's for position, you aren't going to just let someone past. I'm not saying do a Schumi, but you don't just jump out of the way as if you were being lapped!!
It looked to me like Vettel was past, and then cut back across too soon. But the stewards gave a penalty to Karthikeyan, and they have access to more camera angles and telemetary so probably had a reason.
Didn't realise he got a penalty and now looking into it, was a pretty pointless penalty at that. One would wonder if the penalty was given after a bit of Red Bull lobbying. Still, Stewards do have all the data that we don't have, but it certainly looked as if Vettel chopped Karthikeyan off.

yes but staying out on rain tyres on a track that's still damp is safer, and Sauber had good reason to play it safe.
Not buying that one Dave - no way. Like I said, Ricciardo had been out for 5 minutes. 5 minutes in F1 is a lifetime. There was nothing safe about it, Sauber should have done the change to cover Alonso. The team had good data, the numbers were clear, the inters were now slicks anyway, and slicks were substantially faster.

So it was either extremely poor judgement on behalf of Sauber, or there are contractual obligations at play.
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2012 | 08:19 AM
  #250  
s2k_Nut's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 0
From: Here and awake!
Default


So it was either extremely poor judgement on behalf of Sauber, or there are contractual obligations at play.
Indeed, and not all contracts have to be written, don't p1ss off your engine supplier by stealing their thunder.
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:52 AM.