Boxster Board S2000 talk...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,282
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From: Melbourne
Sunchild,
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Are you saying that a stock Miata will beat a stock s2000 in a race from 0-30? I doubt it, and even if it's true -- so what?
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No, that's not what I'm saying ... the S2000 'should be quicker ... just by only very little in those speeds. Though, the 0-30mph is very important in everyday driving as that is the 'sprint' you're going to do to get ahead of people of the lights. You can get in no time to 30mph if you drop the clutch from ~6k rpm but I doubt that's what you (or I) do in everyday driving.
Sev,
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The simple way to put it is, if you get caught out of vtec, which means below 25 mph in 1st gear, against a Boxster S, you are toast. If you get caught out of vtec against a 2.7 he will gain a little bit on you but not much.
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That is exaclty what I'm saying, though, I'd say that 25mph is still too slow to keep up with BoxtserS im a rolling start - S2000 is so much more peakier than the BoxsterS that it will lose a lot of ground to BoxtserS in the 1st to 2nd gear-change (hence my thread about closing the 1st to 2nd gear ratio gap). I'd say that you need good 80kph (50mph) to be true equal to BoxtserS in rolling starts.
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...if you get caught out of vtec against an S you will be beaten.
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If you get caught out of VTEC even Boxster2.7 will wipe the floor with the S2000. Bellow VTEC the S2000 makes 'only' 117kW (156hp) max, and that is nowhere enough to keep up with the 162kW (216kW) Boxster2.7. Though, at low revs, the S2000 and Boxster2.7 are very evenly matched. To have more power than the Boxster2.7 you need more than 7k rpm though.
General note - remember that the engine in the S2000 is 'only' a 2L engine and bellow VTEC it does not make anymore power than any other 'good' 2L engine. In the pre-VTEC region the S2000 behaves just like any other 'good' 2L car .... if can't compete there with car's like M3 or BoxtserS there.
---------------------
Are you saying that a stock Miata will beat a stock s2000 in a race from 0-30? I doubt it, and even if it's true -- so what?
---------------------
No, that's not what I'm saying ... the S2000 'should be quicker ... just by only very little in those speeds. Though, the 0-30mph is very important in everyday driving as that is the 'sprint' you're going to do to get ahead of people of the lights. You can get in no time to 30mph if you drop the clutch from ~6k rpm but I doubt that's what you (or I) do in everyday driving.
Sev,
---------------------
The simple way to put it is, if you get caught out of vtec, which means below 25 mph in 1st gear, against a Boxster S, you are toast. If you get caught out of vtec against a 2.7 he will gain a little bit on you but not much.
---------------------
That is exaclty what I'm saying, though, I'd say that 25mph is still too slow to keep up with BoxtserS im a rolling start - S2000 is so much more peakier than the BoxsterS that it will lose a lot of ground to BoxtserS in the 1st to 2nd gear-change (hence my thread about closing the 1st to 2nd gear ratio gap). I'd say that you need good 80kph (50mph) to be true equal to BoxtserS in rolling starts.
---------------------
...if you get caught out of vtec against an S you will be beaten.
---------------------
If you get caught out of VTEC even Boxster2.7 will wipe the floor with the S2000. Bellow VTEC the S2000 makes 'only' 117kW (156hp) max, and that is nowhere enough to keep up with the 162kW (216kW) Boxster2.7. Though, at low revs, the S2000 and Boxster2.7 are very evenly matched. To have more power than the Boxster2.7 you need more than 7k rpm though.
General note - remember that the engine in the S2000 is 'only' a 2L engine and bellow VTEC it does not make anymore power than any other 'good' 2L engine. In the pre-VTEC region the S2000 behaves just like any other 'good' 2L car .... if can't compete there with car's like M3 or BoxtserS there.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,125
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From: Montreal
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]Sunchild,
---------------------
Are you saying that a stock Miata will beat a stock s2000 in a race from 0-30? I doubt it, and even if it's true -- so what?
---------------------
No, that's not what I'm saying ... the S2000 'should be quicker ... just by only very little in those speeds. Though, the 0-30mph is very important in everyday driving as that is the 'sprint' you're going to do to get ahead of people of the lights. You can get in no time to 30mph if you drop the clutch from ~6k rpm but I doubt that's what you (or I) do in everyday driving.
Sev,
---------------------
The simple way to put it is, if you get caught out of vtec, which means below 25 mph in 1st gear, against a Boxster S, you are toast. If you get caught out of vtec against a 2.7 he will gain a little bit on you but not much.
[B]Sunchild,
---------------------
Are you saying that a stock Miata will beat a stock s2000 in a race from 0-30? I doubt it, and even if it's true -- so what?
---------------------
No, that's not what I'm saying ... the S2000 'should be quicker ... just by only very little in those speeds. Though, the 0-30mph is very important in everyday driving as that is the 'sprint' you're going to do to get ahead of people of the lights. You can get in no time to 30mph if you drop the clutch from ~6k rpm but I doubt that's what you (or I) do in everyday driving.
Sev,
---------------------
The simple way to put it is, if you get caught out of vtec, which means below 25 mph in 1st gear, against a Boxster S, you are toast. If you get caught out of vtec against a 2.7 he will gain a little bit on you but not much.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
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If what you were saying was completely true, the s2000 would not have had almost the same 0-60 mph as a boxster S even with a clutch drop at 6000 RPM, which allows us to skip the pre vtec RPMs.
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Hi Sev, not necessarily .... I have not done the 0-60mph test myself against the BoxsterS so I can't be definate, but it is possible for the S2000 to be better of the line and then the BoxtserS make up the ground in the low 2nd gear (straight after the 1st to 2nd change). Best test would be to sit at 70kph (44mph) with both cars in 2nd and punch it - my money would be on the BoxsterS getting a nice jump on the S2000.
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The drive force at the wheels of both cars are about even with advantage going to the boxster S once 25mph (vtec) is engaged.
----------------------------
Where are you getting that info from? When I look at the BoxsterS power curve (even at the wheen from the Boxster board) compared to the S2000, work out the revs at any speeds (as in my table) and then compare, I see the advantage going clearly to BoxsterS unless you have 7k rpm in the S2000 (which is 1k above the VTEC point). If you have some other info, I'd like to know.
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However once you also factor in weight the cars become even.
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The BoxsterS that I'm comparing the S2000 is the one that I would get. ie. manual, 18" wheels and no options (nothing there for me) - that one is only 35kg heavier than the S2000 (barebone). So there is only 2% weight difference. I agree that if you take fully loaded BoxtserS then things could even be in favour of the S2000 .... though a 'fully loaded' BoxsterS is not what I'd call a sports-car but a GT. The BoxsterS that I'd concider or any other 'sports car enhusiast' is the 'barebone' one which has roughly the same equipment as the S2000.
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Also, i did some tests shifting my s2k at 6000 rpm with an idle launch and i managed a 15.4 which is Civic Si (vtec) speed which is no slouch last time i checked.
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Totally agree. I did simailar thing against '94 MR2 (not Turbo) and was slighlty quicker .... which confirms your time. It's not slouch, but it's no 'rocket ship' either bellow VTEC.
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So Vtec vs boxster S = equal performance and better then 2.7
Below Vtec vs boxster S = toast and slightly worse then 2.7.
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Agree again.
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In my opinion the only place the Boxster S can really toast us is speeds higher then 120 MPH thanks to its greater aerodynamicity which is why we were about 7 seconds slower around Nurburing.
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I can puot you a scan of the speeds reached on the corners/straights when they comapred the S2000 vs BoxsterS there. The S2000 gave almost nothing to the BoxtserS in the straighline (except it was down about 10kph on the BoxtserS on the long final straight). The BoxsterS actually carried 3-6kph more speed though each corner and that's why it beat the S2000 there. I'm put that down to nothing more but the tyres as BoxtserS has so much more rubber on the road with it's 225's fronts and 255's at the back. I'm sure that S2000 with those sized tyres would corner just as fast and the difference in the times would be negligable.
If what you were saying was completely true, the s2000 would not have had almost the same 0-60 mph as a boxster S even with a clutch drop at 6000 RPM, which allows us to skip the pre vtec RPMs.
----------------------------
Hi Sev, not necessarily .... I have not done the 0-60mph test myself against the BoxsterS so I can't be definate, but it is possible for the S2000 to be better of the line and then the BoxtserS make up the ground in the low 2nd gear (straight after the 1st to 2nd change). Best test would be to sit at 70kph (44mph) with both cars in 2nd and punch it - my money would be on the BoxsterS getting a nice jump on the S2000.
----------------------------
The drive force at the wheels of both cars are about even with advantage going to the boxster S once 25mph (vtec) is engaged.
----------------------------
Where are you getting that info from? When I look at the BoxsterS power curve (even at the wheen from the Boxster board) compared to the S2000, work out the revs at any speeds (as in my table) and then compare, I see the advantage going clearly to BoxsterS unless you have 7k rpm in the S2000 (which is 1k above the VTEC point). If you have some other info, I'd like to know.
----------------------------
However once you also factor in weight the cars become even.
----------------------------
The BoxsterS that I'm comparing the S2000 is the one that I would get. ie. manual, 18" wheels and no options (nothing there for me) - that one is only 35kg heavier than the S2000 (barebone). So there is only 2% weight difference. I agree that if you take fully loaded BoxtserS then things could even be in favour of the S2000 .... though a 'fully loaded' BoxsterS is not what I'd call a sports-car but a GT. The BoxsterS that I'd concider or any other 'sports car enhusiast' is the 'barebone' one which has roughly the same equipment as the S2000.
----------------------------
Also, i did some tests shifting my s2k at 6000 rpm with an idle launch and i managed a 15.4 which is Civic Si (vtec) speed which is no slouch last time i checked.
----------------------------
Totally agree. I did simailar thing against '94 MR2 (not Turbo) and was slighlty quicker .... which confirms your time. It's not slouch, but it's no 'rocket ship' either bellow VTEC.
----------------------------
So Vtec vs boxster S = equal performance and better then 2.7
Below Vtec vs boxster S = toast and slightly worse then 2.7.
----------------------------
Agree again.
----------------------------
In my opinion the only place the Boxster S can really toast us is speeds higher then 120 MPH thanks to its greater aerodynamicity which is why we were about 7 seconds slower around Nurburing.
----------------------------
I can puot you a scan of the speeds reached on the corners/straights when they comapred the S2000 vs BoxsterS there. The S2000 gave almost nothing to the BoxtserS in the straighline (except it was down about 10kph on the BoxtserS on the long final straight). The BoxsterS actually carried 3-6kph more speed though each corner and that's why it beat the S2000 there. I'm put that down to nothing more but the tyres as BoxtserS has so much more rubber on the road with it's 225's fronts and 255's at the back. I'm sure that S2000 with those sized tyres would corner just as fast and the difference in the times would be negligable.
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