Wow... im totally agreeing with 8D

 

[QUOTE=Kyushin,Nov 24 2008, 08:56 PM]Seems this magician isnt really placing any concrete stance, just questioning others posts seeming to take a side without taking a side.

 

Good call

 

The only reason that I see that it would be immoral or moral is based solely on ones opinion. As stated some where in this thread, my immoral might be your moral and vice versa. So this is to say that ones OPINION doesn't not make it right or wrong just something that that person does or doesn't like based on that person.

 

[QUOTE=magician,Nov 25 2008, 12:14 AM]Touch

 

We al know the govt ignroes the constution and its practically obsolete now, were already headed into a facist dictatorship.

 

[QUOTE=rahvis,Nov 25 2008, 08:00 AM]Section 1.[I]

 

That's a point that's valid with any legal discussion, whether it's legalizing gay marriage, regulating pollution, legalizing euthanasia, or bailing out GM.

I think you're on to something there.

Once again, there's the rub: who gets to decide whether the statistics are reasonable or not, or whether the logic is sound or not?

That may or may not be true, but intolerance is hardly equivalent to violence. Indeed, every law in existence is the result of - or, perhaps, the embodiment of - intolerance. Society won't tolerate murder, speeding, vandalism, littering, tax evasion, rape, smoking crack, burglary, and so on. Without intolerance you have anarchy. Intolerance, on some level (and it's a pretty broad level), is necessary; violence, arguably, is not.

 

See the thing here is that the even though I guess you can say it is not socially accepted ... what does someone's gay marriage life have to do with anyone else? There are other things that are not accepted socially, but has it been outlawed? I mean it is ridiculous. I guess socially it is unaccepted to have sex with strangers on a first date ..so why no propositions for that? Do you know why? It is because what does Joe and Mary's sexual encounters HAVE TO DO WITH YOU? >> NOT ONE THING.

You (or anyone for prop 8) still have not given me a definite answer.

So it offends YOUR moral beliefs or YOUR social beliefs ... are you going to go around and impose it on everybody else even though it DOES NOT effect you?

Now before you think about throwing in that the other laws such as speeding again is accepted by the majority to be illegal ... think of those laws and how it DOES effect you. Do you not see a difference?

So what if the BELIEFS of someone else differ from yours ... do you have the right to tell what some should believe or not? Your quote about unbelievers clearly shows where one of the strong reasons of YES on 8 advocates are placing heir vote on .. which is clearly religion.

Should we then go then and knock down all the atheists who do not "follow" the same path as you? You are entitled to your own sets of beliefs, so why should gays not be entitled to theirs? I mean I'm sure I have a set of beliefs and such that differ from yours .. should I have a right to stand over your beliefs just because I believe differently?

Can someone who believe in Prop 8 PLEASE give me a strong reason as to WHY it is right to pass prop 8 OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT THE PATH OF GOD?

Magician, your point about the laws being unequal is a good point; but all of those discrimination have to do with laws that WILL effect others. I mean aren't laws there to protect/effect the public as a whole? So I still do not see how gay marriages effect anyone else other then the gays themselves. Marriage is a PRIVATE issue is it not? Same thing as how many children will you have, who to marry, how to marry etc.

 

I agree that it's not exactly interpreted as we'd all like it to be, but it was a pretty well written document with sound and fair principles outlined in it. Of course, lots of things seem nice on paper and suck in their implementation. Socialism never really works out to be the utopia I'd like it to be.

Being a naturalized citizen myself, there are days when I think this rule sucks. Not that I think I'm nearly qualified to run this bitch, but I'm sure there are countless people out there who could do a much better job than anyone born in the US. Maybe that's something that will change down the road, maybe it never will.

But if you are arguing that since the government has age restrictions on driving, drinking, voting, joining the military and the like; that it's only fair to continue discriminating based on a person's sexual preference is asinine. At the end of the day, the restrictions on age exist to protect the safety of underage individuals as well as those that might come to be hurt by improper use of a car, alcohol, power of choice, and combat training. Of course this limitation on age doesn't completely eliminate accidents and improper use of the above, but it certainly curbs it to an extent and deters other similar violations.

Prohibiting someone from getting married based on their sexual preferences is equivalent to discriminating against someone based on their voting history. Voting tendencies are considered by many to be a personal choice. If this information were suddenly published and the majority stood against a minority and kept them from voting, people would consider that to be unconstitutional, unfair and unreasonable in a country founded on principles of equality and democracy.

In this thread we've rounded this point over and over and those arguing in favor of Prop 8 continue to push the same argument about morality and discrimination existing regardless of our stance on Prop 8.

The fact is, it used to be the Irish, Italians, Chinese, Blacks, Women, Muslims and today it's all about the Gays. I think before anyone else argues in favor of Prop 8, they ought to ask themselves how they are any different from the people around the world fighting similar fights...

Hutu vs. Tutsi
Tamil vs. Sinhalese
Isrealite vs. Palestinian
Nazi vs. Jew
Christian vs. Muslim
Muslim vs. Hindu

This list goes on, but you all get the idea.

QUIKAG asked earlier that if we allow gays to marry, where will it stop? While that is a perfectly fair question, the more critical question is, if we continue to perpetuate this intolerance, how will it end?

People are always going to be different. The sooner everyone gets on board with that bit, the sooner we can all be productive in addressing other issues.