sorry, i live in a southeastern state where a lot of African Americans are oversized. no offense

 

Good arguments all, Strike, but I believe they fall short for a few reasons:

1. We claim (increasingly imperfectly it seems) to operate our country and it's businesses on founding principles that state that each PERSON is equal, not only those of the currently preferred physical type. No business may serve only those with a specific body type (like skin color.) This is why the other physical and social examples do apply. In each case -- particularly the one we both find most offensive -- a claim of inferiority was used as the basis of the exclusion.

Betraying these principles of inclusion is how the cultural decline you mention begins. It's a long stretch to blame statistical weight on the decline of the family unit. It would be much more on target to blame statistical weight on our changing workplace and its decline in physical work. In any event, statistical weight argues that overweight is now normal. Do you really think that so many people are just morally bankrupt?

2. Your contention -- put another way -- is that overweight people are morally inferior because they don't choose to be thin; therefore it is OK to discriminate. They should just stay at home if they "want" to be fat or don't have the moral character to be thin. This, I think, says more about your fortune than about how hard many overweight people try to control it.

3. You dismiss all of the other factors as unimportant to fare adjustment. Has cleaning our own tables resulted in a decline in sandwich costs? I would contend it is these other factors that have had a much greater effect, just as they have in every other industry. But whether or not they have, I think paying the extra dollar or two is well worth it to maintain an inclusive society.

4. I doubt that many of those arguing against the wide would be doing so if the class of people at issue were tanned, buff, body builders with big shoulders that intrude into other's space. But when we all have to walk through a sizing template, this (discipline superior?) group is next.

I don't think you're a bigot; I mean that and I think I know you well enough to say it. But I do think you believe overweight people are morally and asthetically inferior and this makes it OK to blame them for the airline's size-norming. I don't agree on any point.

 

Overweight people are aesthetically inferior to the norm. It is their weight (which can be controlled) and as a direct result their width, that is the basis for so many problems where space is at a premium. The facts are clear, if you are over and above the average width, you should pay for your comfort or find another mode of transportation that fits your dimensions. You should NOT infringe on the comfort of another normal sized passenger because of your own wanton eating habits.

 

Jim,

Your last post so bastardizes my arguments, makes assumptions so far out there that I can't see how you got them from my post, and ignores almost all of my contentions without refuting them, that it's not worth continuing to debate. It's a shame because I enjoy intelligent debate. Unfortunately, that's something that's impossible to have when one person has blinders on and just keeps repeating the same things without addressing the issues brought up by the other side. At least you don't think I'm a bigot

Aaron

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]Jim,

 

these posts are too long

 

yeah, my attention span is too short and i am getting bored reading it all, need a concise version please

 

The funny thing is that airlines (they don't really make the seats, they buy them from several manufacturers) haven't made seats any narrower. Since the advent of the jet age, the single aisle Boeing 707/720/727/737 and 757 have all had the same cabin width with six seats across in coach. In wide body aircract like the 747/L-1011/DC-10/MD-11 have been delivered with 10 across or 9 across coach configurations since their initial introduction in the late 60s and early 70s. Airlines have recently played with seat pitch, the distance between seats fore and aft, but there has not been a similar debate about tall people (If I can feel your knees in my back, you need to buy two seats).