My company has a fantastic intake for your S2000. In fact, it's the only intake worthy of being under your hood.

Every week we'll get together and talk about the feeling we get with this intake. We'll talk about how much faster the car feels. We'll share stories of how great it is when our car hits VTEC. And we'll have some compassion for those people who don't have this intake, because compassion is important. And really, when we get the chance, we should all try to talk other people into getting this intake too. You don't have to do this, but it is suggested.

But there's a few caveats:
1) You can never dyno this intake.
2) You can never race other S2000s with other intakes.
2) You can never remove this intake and try other intakes.
3) You can never question the quality or price of this intake. We'll tell you everything you need to know. What we don't tell you, you don't need to wonder about.

To do any of these things means that you are going to get in an awful accident in your S. I mean it! You have been warned. Just don't question it. Besides it upsets everybody else when you ask these questions, and why would you do that? Aren't we your friends? Aren't we like family to you? Why would you let us down? We're trying to save you!

Oh yeah, you'll be paying for this intake in a life-time installment plan. Don't worry about the cost! Considering that the intake is the very best and really the only one worthy for your car, the price should be of no consideration. And besides, you don't want to question any of this, or... well... you know...


Now who in their right minds would buy this???

What about the people who, when they get their S2000, this intake is already installed? (Read: what about those people who are born into a particular religion?)

 

I read this whole thread because religions, and people's views and perceptions of different faiths interest me. I waited to see if it got locked, or if the tone of discussion was amenable. It is long, but the bulk of it is Mormon history, so skip it if you know it, I just thought a discussion of the LDS is incomplete without a grasp of history. I wrote this largely in response to tritium_pie's posts. I have nothing against the LDS. I will never be a member, but that is neither here nor there. There are several problems I see with the LDS, but they don't include the members I have met.

I do feel the need to say that I think some people see religion as a means of power. That doesn't take away from the good intentions of a particular religion or person, but as my mother used to chide me, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

To address the tithing, all organizations require some kind of funding to pay the rent, heat, maintenance, etc. Asking the members to contribute to this effort is only reasonable, even Cub Scouts has dues. The difference is, in the Catholic Church at least, your contribution is up to you, even if they tell you 10% of your income if you ask. A basket is passed around, and it is considered trey gauche to pay much attention to what other people are contributing. Most people use envelopes with a check inside, so stories of childhood oppression by the collection plate are kind of ludicrous. Many other organizations work much harder at convincing you to part with your money, with fewer direct benefits. The fact that the LDS asks for 10% tithe is just proof they used other contemporary churches as a model.

(Warning: I compiled this myself, and just paraphrased it all. I do not play a historian on TV, so if you think my facts are in error, then by all means verify them. My flippant tone may well secure me a seat in the nether reaches of hell, I should learn to be more reverant of religious leaders.)
Some Mormon history for those who don't know:

Born in 1805, Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS, screwed around the Northeast US during a time of religious revival for a number of years, amassing no real assets and typically living off the generosity or gullibility of other people, depending on who you believe. He spent more than his fair share of time as a defendant on charges of deception and fraud. And all this after his visit with God in 1820, which he didn't tell anyone about for 18 years. Apparently, God and Jesus appeared to a devout Joseph Smith while he was praying in the woods. They told him that all religions were corrupt, and God's power on earth had been taken from him. A few years later, an angel apeared in a vision, and apparently showed Joseph a chest under a hill that contained some magical objects and golden tablets which contained the story of an American Jesus. No more than ten or eleven people ever claimed seeing the gold plates that supposedly contained the books he claimed to translate, and there is reasonable doubt as to whether even that many saw these pages of gold. Either way, in 1828, Joseph Smith began writing the first of the books that he claimed were contained in these secret golden leaves. Once the book was completed, the golden tablets containing the scripture were supposedly returned to the original hiding place, along with the magic implements used to read them.

The LDS was a theology built around the prejudices of the day. For example, dark skin was a sign of inferior intellect and spirit, and being wealthy meant you must be more deserving of Heaven than a poor person. Unlike the original Christianity, which represented (at the time) unpopular ideas like monotheism, the assertion that we are all equal under God regardless of station in life or origin, and (a corollary) being rich does not mean you are worth more to God than a poor person.

At some point, Joseph Smith had a relevation that polygamy was OK by God, paving the way for a spurt of marriages to women who at times were already married (even though the text of his relevation stipulated that his additional brides must be virgin). Note that this polygamy thing wasn't revealed up-front, only after old Joseph had been married for a number of years.

Years of hilarity and hijinks ensue, with not a few people getting tarred and feathered, killed, or otherwise inconvenienced. Being run out of town was old hat to the Mormons of old. It is common for religious fringe groups to see persecution as a sign that they are on the right track - a test of faith, and the early LDS was no exception. In what is now Kansas City, some Mormon nutjobs calling themselves "Danites" decided to start attacking their neighbors with extreme prejudice. The Missouri government (which had until this time graciously provided a county for the Mormons to live) sent in the storm troopers. Basically, it was all-out war on the Mormons, heavily one-sided and like something we hear about in Bosnia or some far-off place, not midwest USA. The Mormons were forced to leave. Most went to Illinois, where there was a significant Mormon population in Commerce, IL, which Joseph Smith renamed Nauvoo. While there, he became a Freemason, and incorporated much of Freemasonry into his burgeoning church's rites. It was in Illinois that he was killed by a mob in June of 1844. His followers split, with some going back to Missouri after renouncing polygamy (this group included Joseph Smith's original wife, Emma), and the bulk of the group moving out to Utah, where hopefully no-one would bother them or be bothered by them.

The Utah Mormons finally decided to drop the whole polygamy thing in favor of becoming a state around 1890, but the intention was to keep practicing polygamy, just be coy about it. It wasn't until 1904 that the church made polygamy an excommunicable offense.

It wasn't until 1978 that the Mormon God notified someone on earth that Africans could be priests (a priest in the LDS is practically every adult male, so this basically allows African peoples to belong to the church, though why any African would want to join at this point is beyond me).

In conclusion, there are so many things that the LDS could be taken to task for, but Tritium_Pie has addressed only the most cosmetic of issues. I would take issue with the elements that directly contradict what is commonly accepted as the teaching of Jesus Christ. Next, I would ask why there are numerous corroborating accounts for many significant moments in history in the Bible, but only one account of the fantastic adventures here in the Americas? Why is there no archaelogical record anywhere on North or South America of a people that crossed the Atlantic from Africa 2600 years ago and created a mighty, continent-spanning civilization? You would think this would be the biggest news of the age? And even though the people who came to the Americas 600 years prior to the birth of Christ had successfully crossed an ocean that must have seemed like it had no end, why didn't they send a ship back at some later date, for trade if nothing else? Surely there were some who would have liked to let their friends and family know they had made it? Surely a ship captain and crew that had just successfully navigated one of the largest trade barriers in the world would be eager to capitalize on their knowledge and experience? I could go on all day, but this is theology and matters of faith. It would be rude to belabor the point farther, if not rude already.

On a side note, a scam is usually something where the buyer gets substantially less than what they paid for. If people are happy with their church, how in the world is it a scam? Do you mean it's a scam because the Mormons that do everything right don't get into the highest level of Heaven? How could you know - did God come and tell you that all organized religions are a scam, like he told Joseph Smith?

Painting all organized religion with the same brush is dangerous and foolish. I happen to think that much of Islam is predicated on morally bankrupt principles, but I am unsure whether it stems from the founder or the people who came after him. I don't like any thought process that blames one sex for the problems of the world, and it seems to my untrained eye that Islam blames its women for the poor behavior of its men, but then pretends that women cannot handle the responsibilities of life. If Moslem men could handle the responsibilities of life, such as interacting with members of the opposite sex, they would have no need to hide their women away, now would they? But this criticism of Islam is not an indictment of all organized religion, or even all of Islam.

Several hundred years ago, there was a schism in the Catholic church, which resulted in what we call Protestantism. Not the first split, and not the last, but one of the grievances this time was the selling of writs of indulgence, which some people took for a free pass into Heaven. Whether the sellers thought of them that way is not known. Either way, the complaint was made that the church should not be selling these things. In fact, the popes of the Catholic Church had developed guidelines at least 500 years earlier that basically agreed with the protesters on this issue. Nevertheless, they exist, they were sold by some Catholic authorities, there were happy customers, and angry people who maybe couldn't afford them. Selling indulgences is very different than asking the parishioners to put donations in the collection plate, don't you think? Who really thinks that sharing the cost of electrricity with 500 other people is going to make them a shoo-in for Heaven regardless of what they do the rest of the week?

There are real issues here, but somehow tritium_pie seemed to miss them all. Open your mind, and realize that maybe some of what they tried to teach you was true. There is no sure thing when it comes to spirituality, you don't know more than the Pope about this. He may not be right, either, but you're not in a position to tell anyone what is the "true" faith.

I know people who are otherwise intelligent, but tell me their day was crappy because Mercury was in retrograde, not because they made poor decisions (if you return a defective item, make sure the replacement works before leaving the store, for crying out loud). To me, that is just sad. But believing in God wouldn't help them, they'd just blame the devil for their mistakes. But let's not kid ourselves. People like that would never join a church. When's the last time you heard of an astrology club running a soup kitchen, or an orphanage, or a food shelf, etc?