Personally I think there should be no mention of religion in ANY state documents, pledges, etc.... I've never agreed with any organized religions weilding political power. For example...the Catholic Church and how much influence the Pope has over political issues. It makes conflicts where there shouldn't be any. IMO of course.

Why does everyone think you need to be a Christian to be a good person?

 

i agree with ltweintz. though christianity is a major religion on this planet, there are plenty others that preaches peace and improvement of mankind.

i grew up a mormon and now i'm buddhist - back to the roots, i guess - and btw, buddhism can be viewed as a religion or as a way of life, i choose the latter. does that i mean i can change my pledge of allegiance to "one nation, under buddha..."?

 

You know what I find ironic about this situation?

After 9/11, you couldn't listen to a single politician or commentator without hearing the words "pray", "God", "faith", not to mention how all kinds of evangelists and Bible scholars were asked for their opinions and whatnot.

As soon as something bad happens, people "run to God" and start talking about Him helping them, etc, etc. It makes me sick that they're all "religous" when they need something or are going through a difficult time, but at any other time they'll challenge anything to do with God in public as being unconstitutional, offensive, and/or inappropriate and insulting.

I am a Christian and I couldn't agree more with what Phi2K (an atheist) said about many so-called Christians. They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. Phi2K, as an atheist, is doomed to hell in their eyes, but at least he's not a hypocrite like they are. I'd rather be around an honest atheist than a hypocritical Christian.

That said, no one is perfect and you can find faults in everyone if you look hard enough. Just because a lot (even the majority) of professing Christians are hypocrites doesn't mean that what they say they believe is not right, true, or the way to go. Naturally, I think that Christianity is the "true" way (otherwise I'd not be a Christian), but as any Christian should know (and tell you), Christianity is not about a group of people, it's about each person individually. I say, find one person that is a true Christian and you'll see a reason to believe that there is a God. There is no nicer, more decent, more helpful person in the world, bar none...

Enough proseletyzing...

You know why I think that the "under God" phrase is being challenged? Because the people that are "offended" by it are actually scared that their children might some day realize that their parents might not actually be correct about atheism; their children might actually consider Christianity as a viable option for their life. They don't care about their kids being exposed to sex, drugs, violence, and all kinds of things on TV - nope, instead they're concerned with a tiny phrase, "under God", in their constitution. Talk about a priority problem!

Bah. Insanity.

Anyways....that's my $0.02. Flame away <grin>.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garyj
[B]Lots of posts, lots of disagreement, and no name calling.

 

The discussion is still going great. I'd just like to point out that the offending phrase is "under God." This is not a distinctive "Christian" understanding. A phrase like, "in Jesus name" would be, however. "Under God" can be stated by a person of any religious belief. I believe that even a humanist or atheist could say it without contradiction - believing themselves to be the ruler of their destiny (god).

I'd also like to mention that the creators of our republic were "religious" people. Some were Deists, but I am not aware of any that believed there was no God (god). Deists believe that God exists, but that He took a vacation after creation and that's He's still sunning in another galaxy somewhere.

Reference to God (god) are many and spread throughout in early documents. Statements contrary to this are based on revisionist history and written by those with an agenda, not historical accuracy in mind. Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson are sometimes quoted. Other statements of both men verify that they were not atheists. I believe they were both Deists (using my memory here and that's dangerous).

It has been correctly noted that separation of church and state was for the protection of religious beliefs, not the elimination of it.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]You know why I think that the "under God" phrase is being challenged?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]You know what I find ironic about this situation?

You know why I think that the "under God" phrase is being challenged?

 

I'm going to talk about how I see it - not meant to be an attack on any individual...

but, as I see it, everything about religion smacks of manipulation. The Church has all the power and you must believe or you're going to "hell". Seems like a nice convenient way to have everyone follow something. Also, religion stems from a time when we did not have explainations for things that we now are now able to figure out.

 

I, for one am glad the discussion has been raised. Many people from many different religions try and force their beliefs on others. I don't give a sh*t about what others believe in - just don't try and foist it upon me or my family. Not belonging to a formal religion doesn't automatically make one amoral - to insinuate that not having "Christian" beliefs is leading to the demise of mankind is incredibly stupid.

People who make bad choices and do bad things come in all colors and from all religious (and non-religious) backgrounds. Please.

lig

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BDMonk
[B] Also - to Garyj: