Kyle

BuT iT wAs mAdE fOr ThE sUpErChArGeR guys...!!!

outeiroj

I could understand thinking the header is junk for a bunch of other reasons. But confused as to why this would be a reason. For starters something of that nature should have the car tuned once installed, secondly if I had to pick between running leach and rich I would much rather run rich that risk detonation, and third the alpha was specifically designed around forced induction cars, so again, until properly tuned I don't see an issue with a car running rich

LHT isn't the only place that was peddling this header. Moddiction was as well and King motorsports, redline360, and some other lesser known guys. I removed my berk due to fitment issues and returned it and installed the skunk2 because of a recommendation at the time by moddiction prior to his demise and the fit was immaculate and 4 years later I have still had zero issues.

afzan

running richer than oem header means it was flowing less air = less power

outeiroj

or the fact that headers cool the exhaust gas more (surface area) and locate the O2s further downstream. A cold O2 that went to sleep looks like a lean O2. So the PCM throws fuel at the problem.

also, if it was really running that rich, it would trigger a cel. So it still must have been within honda's desired range

s2000Junky

Exactly

s2000Junky

No, these points would be extremely unlikely. Not sure what your basing this on or if it just sounds good in your head. A 02 pickup point to read afr further down away from the combustion source reads leaner anyway, not richer. A properly reading tail sniffer on your local dyno reads .5 leaner then if picking up at the test pipe or header collector via wideband sensor. You can verify this.

Much more likely the skunk header that was used to test on my buddies car simply didint flow as well as stock. For anyone with a wideband, this is a simple strait to the point test for your breathing bolt on's in question. If the car goes rich at a particular point in the rpm compared to where it was before the bolt on, it simply is losing efficiency and your going to yield less power to pull fuel to tune for it. Its really very simple when you get to basic heart of engines and flow, which is less fuel, less power - no matter how you dress it up.

outeiroj

maybe i didnt communicate my point adequately... if a sensor further away reads leaner than the computer could be compensating adding more fuel for it to run richer. how do you know his readings werent after the computer attempted to counter an initial lean reading?
im not trying to start an argument about it but at least on he FI side I have seen side by side in person dynos with noticable gains with a skunk2 vs stock on a kw kit and on a comptech kit.

I've also never seen a tuner use a tailpipe sniffer, all the tune sessions Ive gone to either used the aftermarket a/f already installed or I have seen them install a a/f sensor in the rear 02 location and set it up to an external reader. due to the inaccuracies of a sniffer in general

s2000Junky

Because at WOT the stock computer is in open loop operation, it doesn't add fuel to compensate. This test was the most basic telling apples to apples you could get with the header swap, no FI, no after market ecu's or tuners intervening in the control test or other variables you may or may not be considering in what you may have witnessed. Besides, a centrifugal supercharger is just like NA in its fundamental operation, there is no magic about it when it comes to a header design, so don't drink the cool aid these companies are selling with their special sponsored parts bin they push for with sales marketing - either it flows better or it doesn't. The stock header works really well and is not a choke point on the vast majority of supercharger set ups, as its mated well to the stock cylinder head flow rate/porting size.

If you start altering the cam timing, valve and port sizing etc then an altercation in the header design to match flow character in the rpm you want to see the most efficiency would yield something. I'm not saying there isn't a aftermarket header out there that doesn't outperform the oem header somewhere in the rpm range either, just suspect of the Skunk based on what I said before. Possible the design was altered after the fact as well because of what we and other seen with it, don't know. But I will tell you that unless you are replacing a total pos cast iron manifold or poor design header, aftermarket almost always trades one part of the powerband for another, so there is a compromise. You want more low end and sacrifice top end or vice versa. Turbo on the other hand is entirely different animal when adapted to our NA engine. It doesn't even have a header, and no Exhaust is the best, as the turbo itself becomes sole flow and choke point.

And your good, i'm not trying to be confrontational at all either, just do my part to get proper information out there as I see it and not cause any confusion.

Car Analogy

To add to the discussion, if the speculated circumstances did exist, where an O2 happened to be located further downstream than the oem design, and thus the O2 reads leaner than it should (than it would have in oem location), and thus the ecu adds more fuel than it should to try and achieve stoich (but in fact adding too much and resulting in rich), and ignoring open loop, than my question is...

From where is the guy with the Skunk header reading his afr ratio to determine (correctly or incorrectly) that its running too rich?

Wouldn't it be the same O2 sensor that is too far downstream? Wouldn't he see the same afr the ecu is seeing from the same sensor?

So then he wouldn't even know the car is running too rich, as he'd be fooled just like the ecu was.

So then he wouldn't be telling Junky that his car was running too rich after installing the header (if the issue was O2 sensor location and not header that flows worse than stock).

Thus the theory that maybe its not the header design but O2 location would seem to have another reason for the theory to not hold up to scrutiny.

Gregory Jauregui

Done.. Time to a law suit.. i got a c38-81 for my replacement c38-92.... HAPPY NEW YEAR KRAFTWERKS !!