Good point really. My mechanic has always commented on how S2000 owners are a bit "different" from most other sports car owners.

Also, this point CKit made is actually very, very true when companies look at designing new products that they know they won't make a huge profit on. Heads of companies will definitely veto new product development just because it isn't worth the hassle if there is isn't a big profit to be made. That's why we shouldn't whine too much...the power that we have with the internet is huge. We can easily shoot ourselves in the foot and not even know it.

 

Damn those S2000 people demanding the quality they pay for! Bastards!



On a related note, do we want to place a bet on how many welds break per year?


The story is not over, as he's stated already.


For oil pressure to drop to zero, you'd have to have the pickup uncovered long enough for it to do so. If someone was only getting sporadic short runs of air being sucked in, pressure will drop without resulting in zero flow or pressure.

It is extremely common to drop pressure with an oil cooler. As you add restriction along the path (a really long tube starts becoming a restriction in itself), pressure drops on the far end. This is why you see oil coolers (and fittings) advertise about pressure drop with their cores... http://www.fluidyne.com/automobile-oil-coolers.html

 

Oil is not compressible. The way oil pressure could drop is if the oil lines expand under pressure. A good system won't do this "much". This is one of the reasons that hoses are braided, it helps reduce expansion of a rubber hose. This is also why brake lines, especially ABS, are metal tubing.

 

thanks for clearing that up, makes sense

 

People in general...

Everyone wants a camera on everyone else for "safety", but gets offended that the NSA monitors emails.

People expect the world out of every service/product they purchase, but most people can't even pull up their pants/clean up after themselves, much less actually provide value; just go out to eat and look at how 80% of peoples' tables look after they eat(TRASHED)...

I want the most/best/biggest/most compact/best built/most economic/trendiest for the lowest, free labor, talk your landlord into letting you slide on the rent for the year, feed your kids next year price! BTW I don't agree with shipping jobs overseas!

People seem to know exactly how much things should cost: everything is overpriced EXCEPT for the service/product they sell to make a living. It's all overpriced and not high enough quality, but "I deserve a higher wage!" for pushing paper all day and talking...

....

What would all of the complainers say if Canton took another year to produce the pan and charged $900 for it? Then it's overpriced... It took too long... It still isn't good enough... I'm depressed with the paint job on my canton pan... I feel like Canton should have chamfered the inner bolt holes at a more suitable angle...

.....

I don't remember being promised a perfect pan; I remember purchasing a first run beta pan that was rushed and I was shocked at how cheap it was given the supplies.

Metal: dunno... $60?
Labor: It would take me a month to build something like that, but lets say it takes two people a day to build the pan (16 total man hours). Cut/weld/etc
Online listing: two hours

So; if we assume the fabricators make $15 (for some of you, the magical minimum wage that would fix America)/(Not total cost to the company BTW), we are looking at $240 just in labor. We aren't paying FICA or any of that other stuff yet either. We are already at $300 using my uneducated number punching. And I haven't even looked at what employee time was tied up trying to keep all of you people happy and up to date on the pan...

So, as it stands, Canton stands to make about $100 on a pan. Yay. They can now pay for utilities, rent, insurance, tax(es), advertising, etc...

...

So, for you business prowess folks, what exactly did you expect for $400? Or better yet, what exactly can you provide that is better than this pan for $400? And yet, you will continue to argue for your side, breaking up each response into individual sentences so you can pick apart an argument because that is what smart people do; that's what you were taught at college right? And you'll argue your side all the while not capable of seeing anything from anyone else's perspective...

"I want a better pan at a better price right now!"

GOT IT.

 

As long as the quality is there, I'd happily pay more. I would not have had a problem paying more if they made the pan extend to the oil pan like the stock pan. For people like EGbeater, paying more up front for better quality could have saved him money in the long run.

 

Beta or not, the defects noted on this pan were from trivial operations. There is no excuse for that.

For example - The bottom of the pan being at an angle and not flat with the ground is something I can accept for a beta product. Canton already admitted they missed the engine sitting at an angle.

However workmanship issues is pure negligence and cannot/should not be blanketed by excuses (e.g. beta).

 

$500 isn't a lot of money to me. I don't demand, nor expect very much from it.

Every custom part I get, I look it over and see if I need to modify it to suit my use and expectation.

Most custom things are way underengineered compared to OEM. Well, Japanese OEM anyway. Lol.

To me, that's what I expect from most motorsport companies.

I don't expect very much and I'm almost never disappointed.

Your perspective is your own. There is no right or wrong here. There is no absolute truth here.

You wanted more and were disappointed. I didn't expect more and was not disappointed.
I club raced with the pan on my car last year and had fun.
Your pan sat around while you were unhappy with it.

You can tell me that I should expect more. But for me, why would I? Your perspective isn't shared by me and I'm no worse off for being fine with a perfectly adequate pan for my uses FOR ME.

Assholes are people who think their OPINION is the only TRUTH.

It's not. I understand your opinion. I don't share it. Some people here share yours. Some people share mine.

I do appreciate the factual information in the thread of what failure points to watch for in the future.

I don't care about all the ZOMG RAGE AND EXPECTASHUNS!

This whole thing reminds me of this guy:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Chung

The dude who said "SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!!! AND I WASN'T SATISFIED!!!!"

 

I simply cannot understand how one should not be disappointed in welds breaking from a company specializing in said products. $500 isn't a lot of money to me either, however, it is still money I am using to pay for a product which was purchased to mitigate issues, not exacerbate them... From "experts", no less. Using steel instead of aluminum was not only advertised on this very pan to be cheaper, but to be stronger. In the case you do actually make contact with something from sliding off track, how do we think the exterior welds are going to hold up?


I'm sorry your standards aren't up to par with mine; maybe it's a generational thing. However, with that said, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone will end up with a much larger issue in time.

 

Was looking through my build notes.

What I got from Canton:

Baffled pan.

Then at a discount, I got an Accusump AND (I had forgotten) an OIL COOLER KIT.

Got a whole bunch of stuff from them at a reduced cost that further offset the price of the baffled pan.

The pan itself, I didn't have much expectation being a first run item. I expected the Accusump and Oil cooler kit to work well, which they did.

My pan leaked a little so had it taken off and resealed. I didn't run the pan for the first few months waiting for others to expose big flaws.

The minor things, I'm okay with.

For the record, I don't think they did a great job with their QC nor engineering. I'm "5/10" on the pan. I think a Moroso pan would have been fine, but I would have still had to buy an Accusump and Oil Cooler. So for the total cost, it's the same for me.

I was buying an Accusump and an Oil Cooler and I got a discounted pan, essentially.