Not to make the fire burn any hotter, but apparently a broken weld in trap door pan as had issues in the past.

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/101...t__p__22494008

 

Like I said, nothing new. Welds break. AP1 A-arm brackets pull out of the frame by breaking their spot welds. So next gen AP2s addressed it with seam welds.

The pan is a basic pan. Never buy anything first or second model year if you're not willing to accept "work in progress."

Think of it this way: Nobody at Canton is saying that they're unwilling to help make it better.

Anyone doing anything needing a baffled pan should expect maintenance and wear for a number of items on a track car.

 

Part of the concern with previous solutions was welds breaking and was obviously noted in the very thread that gained interest in this pan (irony defined ). The tab that broke on Mike's could use reinforcement... So it does not break.


Reinforcing brackets and welds shouldn't represent "work in progress". That knowledge and practice should already be in place, which is what we are paying for in a name brand. It's also why davidc1 worked this out with an oil pan manufacturer and not a basket maker.


The reason I posted the link is because, as I said, it was a concern on the very thread that solicited interest on the Canton pan and was already a concern. What I might expect on a new iteration of a product such as this... Minor fitment issues (which is has) and potential [minor] improvements in oil control based off testing. What I do not expect, a product falling apart. New to S2000, yes. New to reinforcement and welding... Should be no.

Absolutely, just not the oil pan itself. The concept of the pan is to solve problems, not potentially be one.

As 99SH asked, I would like to hear/see what Canton plans on changing to mitigate issues. It may or may not provide excellent oil control, but I don't want to install it and be in fear of something breaking lose without the pan contact something to compromise integrity. Quite honestly, I'd love to run the pan I purchased, but I fear it causing an issue that previously wouldn't have been an issue.

 

So, I'm the guy who initially bought the non-A/C pan for my application (I use my S2k for SCCA Solo autocross in STR class as well as NASA Time Trials, plus I drive it to track events many hours away, so I need to have A/C both for STR rule compliance and for the long drives to and from track events) in early summer of 2014. The sales rep I spoke to (can't remember his name now) will attest to the fact that I asked a LOT of questions over the phone, but the fact that at the time there were two models of Canton pan for the S2000—one with the welded on plate with the three bosses for the OEM A/C compressor bracket, and one without—was never mentioned. I might have thrown him off by saying "I use my S2000 primarily as a track car," so he may have assumed I'd removed the A/C. IMO, it's a sales respresentative's job to ensure that the customer knows what he's buying, especially when the customer isn't able to see the part he's ordering in good faith over the phone. In any case, it was annoying to find out during the installation of the pan that it had no accommodation for the A/C bracket, and that I hadn't been told that the pan I was buying was missing that element. From all my questions on the phone, it should have been apparent that I wasn't that familiar with the part... it was actually a kind of spur-of-the-moment decision to see if Canton had a pan in stock, and it would be an ideal time to put it on, since the engine was partially disassembled for other work anyway.

The biggest issue I had with Canton with the non-A/C pan situation wasn't the fact that they didn't inform me about the pan I was buying not accommodating the A/C system; it was how one particular CS rep I dealt with consistently couldn't do what he said he would do (which was simply to send me an email to confirm how they were going to rectify the situation) and after being very patient and calling this Canton rep back every three or four days for more than two weeks, I eventually had to get a little nasty on the phone with him, and when he started spouting the usual excuses about "how busy it's been," "I haven't had time" I interrupted him and rudely said, "You've wasted way more time fielding my calls and making excuses for why you haven't been able to send an email that would take you all of 45 seconds... just stop talking, and do what you said you were going to do two weeks ago." I received the email about an hour after I hung up on him.

I should note that I've been in the "playing with cars" thing for more than 20 years. In that time, I've realized that great customer service and companies that actually do what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it (or machine shops/automotive shops getting work done when they promise it to be done, or getting it right the first time) is actually far rarer than it should be. I can count the number of automotive merchants and vendors I've been completely satisfied with (I've dealt with dozens, maybe hundreds in the last two decades) on my two hands... here's four off the top of my head: GrimmSpeed, Fidanza, OS Giken, and Wavetrac (differentials). <<< That's not to say I didn't experience any PROBLEMS with any of those companies' products, but their customer service and how they always DID WHAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO, WHEN THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO IT was absolutely top notch.

I can't even begin to count the number of automotive performance shops and companies I've been f@#ked over by, either to the tune of hundreds or thousands of dollars, or where things went wrong on my car due to carelessness or ignorance or negligence, or where I missed key race events because my car simply didn't get worked on, even though it'd been at their shop waiting for days or weeks in advance, because I was "a sponsored driver," and not a "paying customer."

You'd think that this means I have a thick skin now, and I'm more accepting of shops and companies that totally drop the ball on customer service or don't make good on their promises. It's the opposite. Now I'm less tolerant of bad customer service and getting the runaround, because I can smell it instantly (from decades of experience) and unfortunately, in my direct experience, the nice guy who is polite and understanding DOESN'T get better service from the company or CS rep who has dropped the ball; they take advantage of that person's willingness to overlook an error and continue to not respect that person's time and money. So now, as much as I hate to do it, I quickly become the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

If you talk to Bob at Canton Racing, I'll guarantee you he knows who I am now.

Agreed with all of what davidc1 said above. I've been dealing with Canton since early June 2014, and then very recently after my pan started leaking, due not to sealing issues at the lip, but because of the pan had cracked across the welded-on plate for the A/C compressor mounting bosses (it was also leaking from a pinhole leak in one of the welds at the other end of the pan).

Up to this post, I haven't said boo about any of my experiences or unhappiness with Canton's product and customer service, either on s2ki, Facebook or other social media, or elsewhere online because IMO the story isn't over yet, as I've only just gotten around to reinstalling the repaired oil pan (I was not given an option where they'd send me a new pan as soon as I'd shipped them back mine, despite my requesting that; I was also not given the option of paying for another pan and having that shipped out and then having that amount refunded after they received my cracked pan, which is what Jeff apparently did for hondalovr13).

My recently repaired pan is now back on my car, and I've ensured that my installation isn't leaking upon startup and idling the car for 10 minutes, but I haven't driven the car at all, and I won't be taking the car back to the track until late spring, so I won't know if this newly repaired and replated pan will crack again once it's subjected to the stresses of hard driving yet.

Canton did cover the cost of shipping my cracked pan back to them, which I appreciate, but this was only done after I bitched that their refusal to send me a pan immediately after receiving mine and insisting on having it repaired, which ended up taking about a month, greatly complicated my life, because I had taken the car to a shop to have them reinstall the pan, based on the assumption that it was the Permatex that was leaking and not the pan itself, and the shop didn't want my car sitting in their lot undriveable and leaking oil on the ground for upwards of two weeks (completely understandable); plus due to their pan cracking I was now going to be paying that shop for not one but two oil pan reistallations (since the hairline cracks and pinhole leaks were not discovered until after the pan was reinstalled, the crankcase refilled, and the oil pan immediately started leaking again, and it was obvious now from what point sources).


So, as I stated above, I experienced a similar defect on my Canton pan, which I believe is evidence of poor quality control. Sure, people are human and inconsistent quality happens sometimes; I get that and am okay with that. But Canton says they leaktest every pan before it ships. Why wasn't this defect caught during that process? Or, if it's simply impossible to simulate real-world conditions with leak testing (I could also see/accept that), then ship every damn oil pan with a bead of Permatex applied at Canton's facility along all the welds on the inside of the pan. Seems hokey, but I'd rather have that than a pan that eventually starts leaking from a very minor defect in the welding beads.

I agree wholeheartedly with what yamahaSHO said about how we have a right to expect a product that was developed and refined with an attention to detail (i.e., parts should fit our cars without further tweaking or modification, nor should they fail under the normal operating conditions that they were intended for; that's what we're paying for) even if it's an aftermarket part.

Yes, playing with cars is ultimately a stupid waste of time and money, and lots of shit goes wrong all the time. I get that; I've lived it.

Still doesn't mean that when I spend good money on a premium aftermarket part—one that as yamahaSHO pointed out, is made by one of the leaders in the industry, with TONS of experience making oil pans, and is a company here in the U.S., not one in China or Taiwan or Thailand or any of the other asian countries that everyone loves to hate on for their supposedly "shoddy, inferior, poorly made" products—I don't have a right to be pissed. I shouldn't just accept part failures such as this as "part of the game" and be okay with it. It'd be one thing if I was bitching about an aftermarket piston that melted on a drag S2000 making 900 whp. That's racing. But an oil pan—OEM or aftermarket—is supposed to fit the car properly, not crack, not leak, and hold oil. It's not like I'm unhappy that the oil pan cracked when I went off-track and hit a rock with it. Or that I'm upset that I can't document increased or more consistent oil pressures during cornering events with this pan compared to the stock part.

I can supply pictures of the cracked pan, how Canton repaired it; just need to find time to get them hosted. I can even share my emails with Canton if someone would like to read them. I unfortunately don't have recordings of my phone conversations with Canton, or my in-person conversations with the Canton reps at SEMA, where the two individuals I spoke with really didn't show much concern about the fact that here was a customer who bought a Canton product, had an issue with it, and was asking about the remedy for the solution, in person (I had contacted Canton about my cracked oil pan and sent them many clear pictures of the cracks and leaks a couple weeks before SEMA, and up 'til then, no one at Canton had been able to tell me how they would handle it... was I to get an exchange unit, are you guys going to cover it under warranty, etc).

When I have the time later this week I'll upload the pictures and share them, along with more details about the fitment issues with my Canton pan (not regarding the flatness of the pan or the flywheel cover, but with how the A/C compressor bosses on the Canton pan don't line up properly with the OEM Honda aluminum intermediary bracket).

Thanks for reading and considering.

 

Lmao

 

Holy article batman lol. I got tired of reading about hald way through

 

Well, I'm glad I got my pan before Canton decides S2000 owners are the biggest whiners on the planet and decide to just discontinue production because it's just not worth the hassle to make any more. Man, they're going to be so sorry they ever agreed to making this pan if they're not already.

 

was thinking the same thing lol


its like cops, everyone complains about the bad ones but theres a lot more great ones out there.

 

Man! You only have 74 posts, but this one was worth at least another couple hundred! lol

Actually, seriously speaking, thanks for your well written post about your experiences. It's good to hear about someone's experiences who has actually used the pan themselves and their experiences with it and the manufacturer. Alter you went through some trials and tribulations, I'm glad it came out ok in the long run.

Some comments to clear up a few things from your post and some other ideas that were in other posts...

The purpose of creating this pan had nothing to due with trying to increase cooling by increasing capacity, nor did it have anything to do with a previous manufactures attempt to create a baffled pan. The increased capacity was simply something that was done "because it could be done", and the pan would have been created regardless of any other manufactures attempts. The idea was born simply because nobody else had a full baffled pan on the market.

Also, there seems to be a misconception with some people that a baffled pan will somehow affect oil pressure. In fact, the only time this baffled pan would affect oil pressure is to keep it from dropping to zero if the pickup head becomes uncovered and is not in a pool of oil (oil starvation). Oil pressure is unaffected by the pan otherwise. It will not affect oil pressure under idle, cornering, braking or any other condition, expect that in which the pickup head would become uncovered. Therefore you will not see any change in oil pressure under any circumstances. Someone had also mentioned in another post something about oil pressure dropping after installing and oil cooler because of the extra tubing and oil lines, etc. This is also incorrect from the standpoint of the oil. Oil, like water, is for all practical purposes incompressible. So, a properly designed system's oil pressure would be only minorly affected by this. If the oil pressure drops a substantial amount, something is wrong with the lines. They are expanding too much.

 

i thought adding lots of oil lines would lower psi (in the case of an oil cooler for example)?