Prepping for BSP
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 2
Oh interesting. Hmm, under the letter of the rule of update/backdate I don't see having the base trim (plastic tray?) for the removal of the soft top as an update to the CR trim as being legal. You remove the soft top since the CR doesn't have it but the tray isn't a CR part since that belongs as part of the soft top so I'd interpret that as being you either update to CR trim or you keep it to a standard AP1/AP2 trim. Now I did put on an early AP1 soft top on my car (plastic window) to save some weight but still it seems very gray. I do agree though that all these rules are a bit contrived and really won't hurt the competitiveness of any BSP S2000 except our wallets...so maybe the idea is to drain us of cash so we can't compete?
-Marc
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,219
Likes: 12
From: NYC
Yeah, the irony is that the ducts themselves are actually punctured right now from previous rubbing against my tire so they're not effective anyway. Got new ducting today but not going to bother putting that in until after Nats.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
Likes: 2
From: weston
Letter sent
Dear SEB and BOD,
In the recent August SEB minutes you published the following
“Soft Top Removal
For a Honda S2000 the deletion of the soft top in BSP is acceptable, but the hard tonneau must be fitted in its place as it
is on the CR.”
As a competitor in BSP and 10 year member of the SCCA along with my Co Driver G. Warren Hahn who is a 26 year member and a two time national champion. We are writing in response to the recent decisions by the SEB that seem to be made with no regards to what the memberships thoughts and recommendations have been. With regards to this previous published clarification here are some facts that we feel are pertinent.
Last year the S2000 that won BSP did not have these parts installed..
These parts are considered to be trim pieces and in no way relate to the soft top or its removal and no parts are shared with the soft top
The cost of these parts is astronomical. At Honda MSRP these parts total approx. $1688 plus tax. Even getting them through HPD they are $1132 plus tax.
One fellow competitor ordered these parts and waited seven months to get them. He was also advised that these parts are no longer in production
There is a aftermarket carbon fiber replica that is available for $1500 plus shipping
These parts are considered part of the CR aero package which is designed to provide the best aerodynamics using the CR rear wing. Another expensive part at almost $1000 from the dealer.
When clarification was given by Doug Gill and Brian Harmer at Spring Nationals, it was advised that the cover was not needed and that running the car in the same manner as Jason Uyeda car was at nationals last year when he won the championship would be sufficient.3
There is a nominal weight difference between the two options of approx. 2lbs
It seems that there are some ulterior motives here from other members on the SPAC which have a vested interest in keeping participation in BSP down. This clarification also carries negative resonance based on the following other clarifications and allowances that have been previously requested this year. Some of these were.
The use of alternative hard tops in Street Prepared. The S2000 OEM hardtop is not available new anymore. They are only found used and usually in excess of $3000 and that does not include the factory strikers and catchers which run an additional $900 just for the hardware. Replica tops are available for approximately $1500-$2000 depending on material and hardware. These tops will generally never be used in competition anyways.
Allowance for reinforcing the differentials for reliability was also shot down. So for this year alone I am aware of at least 4 differentials, 3 clutches and multiple axles that have been replaced due to mechanical failures.
Next is the Street class proposal.
This proposal is for all purposes ridiculous. We are essentially creating more classes in order to create more interest in the club and the sport however this is coming with the penalty of hurting those longtime members that have been participating in this sport for many decades. There have already been many vocal posts on chat boards, social media and in person from many long time members, national champions and other participants who will be drawn away from the sport due to these new classing proposals. You have approximately 1300 members who will attend at least 1, with some attending as many as 6-7 or more national events a year including spending thousands of dollars in gas, hotel, travel, car setup and prep, and any other costs involved in committing to a full national season of events. Many of these participants have a lot of money invested in their vehicles and will be drawn away from the sport. You already have street tire classes in RT and ST. I think the overall costs associated with race tires vs. street tires have not been completely understood. Most ST and RT competitors will still have multiple sets of wheels/tires in order to compete at the highest level of the sport. Race tires now last longer than they ever used to. We recently set FTD at a local event with over $100 competitors on BFGoodrich R1S slicks that had in excess of 85 runs on them. This new direction of classing and changing the entire sport which has been a grassroots sport for many years is really disheartening. I believe if these decisions continue to be made in this manner, national participation will surely continue to drop in subsequent years and in a few years national events will be short on attendance. We already had several events this year that were pretty close to being cancelled to lack of participation. These changes will likely continue to make this worst for years to come.
Sacha Tauber
Concerned SCCA Member
Dear SEB and BOD,
In the recent August SEB minutes you published the following
“Soft Top Removal
For a Honda S2000 the deletion of the soft top in BSP is acceptable, but the hard tonneau must be fitted in its place as it
is on the CR.”
As a competitor in BSP and 10 year member of the SCCA along with my Co Driver G. Warren Hahn who is a 26 year member and a two time national champion. We are writing in response to the recent decisions by the SEB that seem to be made with no regards to what the memberships thoughts and recommendations have been. With regards to this previous published clarification here are some facts that we feel are pertinent.
Last year the S2000 that won BSP did not have these parts installed..
These parts are considered to be trim pieces and in no way relate to the soft top or its removal and no parts are shared with the soft top
The cost of these parts is astronomical. At Honda MSRP these parts total approx. $1688 plus tax. Even getting them through HPD they are $1132 plus tax.
One fellow competitor ordered these parts and waited seven months to get them. He was also advised that these parts are no longer in production
There is a aftermarket carbon fiber replica that is available for $1500 plus shipping
These parts are considered part of the CR aero package which is designed to provide the best aerodynamics using the CR rear wing. Another expensive part at almost $1000 from the dealer.
When clarification was given by Doug Gill and Brian Harmer at Spring Nationals, it was advised that the cover was not needed and that running the car in the same manner as Jason Uyeda car was at nationals last year when he won the championship would be sufficient.3
There is a nominal weight difference between the two options of approx. 2lbs
It seems that there are some ulterior motives here from other members on the SPAC which have a vested interest in keeping participation in BSP down. This clarification also carries negative resonance based on the following other clarifications and allowances that have been previously requested this year. Some of these were.
The use of alternative hard tops in Street Prepared. The S2000 OEM hardtop is not available new anymore. They are only found used and usually in excess of $3000 and that does not include the factory strikers and catchers which run an additional $900 just for the hardware. Replica tops are available for approximately $1500-$2000 depending on material and hardware. These tops will generally never be used in competition anyways.
Allowance for reinforcing the differentials for reliability was also shot down. So for this year alone I am aware of at least 4 differentials, 3 clutches and multiple axles that have been replaced due to mechanical failures.
Next is the Street class proposal.
This proposal is for all purposes ridiculous. We are essentially creating more classes in order to create more interest in the club and the sport however this is coming with the penalty of hurting those longtime members that have been participating in this sport for many decades. There have already been many vocal posts on chat boards, social media and in person from many long time members, national champions and other participants who will be drawn away from the sport due to these new classing proposals. You have approximately 1300 members who will attend at least 1, with some attending as many as 6-7 or more national events a year including spending thousands of dollars in gas, hotel, travel, car setup and prep, and any other costs involved in committing to a full national season of events. Many of these participants have a lot of money invested in their vehicles and will be drawn away from the sport. You already have street tire classes in RT and ST. I think the overall costs associated with race tires vs. street tires have not been completely understood. Most ST and RT competitors will still have multiple sets of wheels/tires in order to compete at the highest level of the sport. Race tires now last longer than they ever used to. We recently set FTD at a local event with over $100 competitors on BFGoodrich R1S slicks that had in excess of 85 runs on them. This new direction of classing and changing the entire sport which has been a grassroots sport for many years is really disheartening. I believe if these decisions continue to be made in this manner, national participation will surely continue to drop in subsequent years and in a few years national events will be short on attendance. We already had several events this year that were pretty close to being cancelled to lack of participation. These changes will likely continue to make this worst for years to come.
Sacha Tauber
Concerned SCCA Member
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
I don't think that technical bulletin holds water. It flies in the face of UD/BD. The ONLY thing that has to be swapped in entirety is longblocks and transmissions, and if they are going to issue a technical bulletin, it should be clarified with a rule change. Right now, the same rule allows for miatas to do a limited UD to clubsport specs and remove their tops. They don't have to put anything back in. That's f@#ked up.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 400
Likes: 2
From: weston
That's exactly what we are arguing. In any case we may drop the top back in for Toledo just to be on the safe side. I have received responses from the seb, bod and Doug gill and based on those I believe that due to the many letters that they have received they are finally seeing that the seb cool aid is definitely spiked
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