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Prepping for BSP

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Old Jul 3, 2012 | 10:04 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by josh7owens
Are they?

Things I said cost money
Yes.

1.- Any computer control module- Haltech can be used! $1500 buy a used AEM EMS for $800 or used Haltech for $1k.
2.- Any steering wheel- Awesome! $500 My steering wheel, quick release, and hub cost less than $400 buying the wheel and hub used
3.- Spoilers $200 --- no data on that one. I spent about $140 on my 10in aluminum 'air brake' spoiler, and testing showed no difference with or without it.
4.- Rollbars and fuel cells permitted- Saves weight, no fuel starve (fuel cell/surge tank $1000ish). The net of rollbar + fuel cell is going to be close to a wash with running the stock tank. If you build a surge tank for the stock fuel system, you will weigh less than a rollbar + fuel cell setup.
5.- Any wheels- What does the top s2k guy run currently? (custom CCW and hoosiers $4000) 949 17x10's and RPF1 17x10's are under $1300 a set. 295/35/17 hoosiers are $1400 a set. Net: $2700
6.- Any intake manifold (ITBs legal? What about the Hondata gasket?)- Saves 40LBS $3000ish. ITB's saved 8 pounds over the stock manifold, and losing the CAI and filter saved another 2.5-3. Call it 11 pounds total to be really conservative. And there's used sets in the for sale forum right now for $1500. ITB's are entirely unnecessary and don't save that much weight. Trust me.
7.- Any clutch- Saves a couple pounds $500 -- no data here from me
8.- Any flywheel- saves a couple pounds $300 -- this is actually pretty accurate on new price. Saves about 6 pounds over an ap1 flywheel
9.- Port matching- more power $1400 (head job) -- no data
10.- Cam timing- more power $550 --
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Old Jul 23, 2012 | 06:41 PM
  #42  
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SportsCar picked Uyeda FTW in its predictions.
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Old Jul 24, 2012 | 04:42 PM
  #43  
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FWIW, my car this year is pretty much exactly the same as I ran it in 2006. Only real changes are that I removed the top, 315's (which I was planning on doing in 2006) and a 3lb battery... There is certainly more prep to do, but I'm mostly running BSP because it was easier and much cheaper than finishing my SSM build of the car (anyone need a Dauntless wing, haha).

1. I run an AEM and have no complaints. Plug the thing in, add the Modifry speedo thingy, go to pretty much any tuner and you're set. I've run other ECU's in other cars, some costing more than 5x as much and unless there's some really specific reason why, I'd just run the AEM. And the newer AEM's are even better than mine. The trick EFI Tech has been a pain in the Lotus. And if your car doesn't run you're not going to be very fast, see Lotus...
2. Steering wheel is going to save you about 3lbs. You decide what that's worth but you should be able to do it for under $400.
3. Spoilers. Car would probably be faster with them, and I may have them at Nats, but I'd rather they just make them illegal (splitters too) so we don't have to spend a ton of time making one-off fragile crap that messes up Pro Solo staging and makes me scared to back up.
4. Anything less than 3/4 tank and I'm likely to starve. So there's weight to be lost with a cell, theoretically. The trick is we need to run to GCR and Club Racing Time Trial rules. Last I checked (2009) than meant we'd need to run with a hardtop since we're verts so I'd rather keep the weight down low. Arguably unfair since tintops get the weight savings for free. I was going to write a letter back in 2007, but I had already mothballed the car. Maybe worth taking a look at again. SM allows verts to run cells and not be GCR/CRTT compliant so the safety side of the argument isn't really valid.
5. I run 18x11's all around and 285/315s. 8.5" of backspacing with a 15mm spacer in the front. There's lots of long old posts from me about wheel and tire fitment. It's all pretty simple. The 315's will almost clear rolled fenders but not quite and my ride height is currently higher than preferable because of it. Probably not going to do any bodywork this late in the season so things will stay as is, but when I do get the rears fitting better, the ride height will come down and 10.5's will probably be better in the front as the frame rail is limiting factor and even that .5" change will get me close to an extra 1/4" of wheel travel. Widening the front track and flaring the front fenders for real is another option.
6. ITB's + no giant stock intake box = ~20lbs. However, heatsoak is an issue and if I was actually trying hard I'd build a plenum to try and get some cold air. The loss of power on later runs on warm/hot day is noticeable, especially at Pro's. I never did any real back-to-back testing vs. a good setup with the stock manifold since swapping between is a non-trivial amount of work. Better off doing it whenever I blow this motor with the new motor sitting on an engine dyno.
7. I haven't weighed an AP1 flywheel, but a chromoly fw (like the Toda) is going to be about 12lbs lighter than the AP2 flywheel. I'm running a mild street clutch from SPEC mostly because I couldn't find any other's with lightened pressure plates at the time. I don't like overly grabby clutches, especially for Pro's. Say what you want about SPEC but my clutch is still working fine and has well over 300 Pro Solo launches and I do not give up any time at the start to try and save the car.
8. My motor and head are bone-stock. No data I could find and no knowledgeable person I talked to said I was going to gain much vs. the potential for reliability issues. The Hayward ITB manifold matched up to the head quite nicely out of the box.
9. Cam timing is free via the ECU unless you don't touch the VTEC and run cam gears. You want to touch the VTEC tho

I see no reason why BSP shouldn't straight-time SS on almost any course. I'm fortunate to run against one of the fastest SS cars in the country and am faster than him more often than not. Sure 2012 SS is faster thanks to the inclusion of the 911.2 GT3 and 1,000,000 HP Viper, but there's still time in my car too and I don't think it's clearly the best BSP car, certainly not for Lincoln.

Jason Uyeda
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Old Jul 24, 2012 | 05:12 PM
  #44  
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We've got my Z pretty dialed in of late, when it isn't breaking. My co-driver raw timed Strano and Burns at Dover, and it is was in the "other Z", which I don't think is as fast. I generally don't raw time strano here in DC. He kills Lee and I up the hills at Fedex. We run pretty heads up with Jason, though. I still have no aero on my car, and I don't think it will be on for Nationals.

I'm looking forward to running against you.

-Mike
<under the radar per SportsCar>

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Old Jul 24, 2012 | 08:43 PM
  #45  
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Holy crap 18x11!? How does that look like up front?
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Old Jul 24, 2012 | 08:54 PM
  #46  
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Any pics of that wheel size on your car? If you were to do the wheels over again what size and back spacing would you go with?
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Old Jul 24, 2012 | 09:49 PM
  #47  
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Since it looks like I have to host the pics somewhere to put them up here, here's an old post with most of the info....

http://www.sccaforums.com/Forums/tab...lt.aspx#275062

edited to add the text from the SCCAForums post since that site it down all the time. I'll move the pics over later

Originally Posted by spaf on SCCAForums.com at 1/11/2008 11:23 AM
I run 18x11's front and rear with 285s on the front and 295's on the rear. The 295s are actually a touch narrower but taller, I need the gearing.

My 18x11's have basically a 8.5" backspacing. Same front and rear to keep things simple and interchangeable. In the rear I run ~5mm spacer. In the front I generally run ~10mm of spacer. If you care about hub-centricity get all the wheels with the rear hub bore and have spacers made for the front. The front bore is 70.1mm and the rear is 64.1. Or you can get all the wheels to the front bore and lose rear hub-centricity. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference either way...

For SM2 I'd definitely consider the 315/30/18 in the rear. A 315/30 with a 9300 redline and AP1 tranny puts you at about 73mph in 2nd (~72mph for the 295) which is probably close to right for most typical National style courses. Andy/Erik/JRho would have a better idea than me. You will need to flare ~1" to get the 315 to fit, 285/295s will fit with just rolling and some minor fender-tab/bumper modification depending on the amount of toe you run.

In the front, it just comes down to what compromises you are willing to make. You can not get a 285 on an 18x11 to fit (at low ride heights) and maintain near-full lock without slightly flaring the fenders. By slightly I mean just pushing out the lip ~1/4" so it's no longer vertical. You can do this w/o needing to re-paint and most won't even be able to tell difference. Spring dia. will depend on ride height, camber and caster, although I'd always recommend 2.25" to give you max possible, even if you don't need it.

For BSP I'd generally recommend 18x10.5 F/R as I don't think the extra pain involved with 11s is worth it for most. But for you I think the 315s will be better in the rear, in which case you might as well go for 11s if you're willing to flare.

All of the above is in regard to Hoosier A6s. The 710s are slightly shorter and have less section width. Kumho doesn't have a 295 or 315/30/18, although if/when the 305/30/18 shows up it could make things interesting.

Those spring rates seem really low to me. If it were me I'd probably start somewhere around 1000/750 F/R which I think is still somewhat workable on the street.

I have a set of brand new, black anodized 18x11 C10s I'd consider selling since I'm not going to run my car this year. Lemme know if you're interested.
Having since switched to 315's, I'd say that you can probably get away with only 1/2" of flaring the in rear if you want to run ideal ride heights.

My clearance measurements are very, very, tight, so YMMV. Even a minor difference in alignment could cause clearance issues. Different wheels will have different issues as well due to the different designs of the rim-halves and 1 piece wheels generally have less lip than 3 piece wheels. The shape of the rim lip and how it tapers into the wheel is an issue both front and rear... In the front my wheels will just barely hit the a-arm bracket at full lock and in the rear, depending on the toe and camber, the lip can hit the rear part of the unibody where it wraps around the shocks.

In the front, I'm running offset bushings in the upper a-arms, so you'd likely need the same or offset balljoints for camber to get to the same clearances (lower a-arm camber adjustments won't bring the top of the tire in as much). In the rear 8.5" backspacing is too much for the 315's, works with the 285's and 295's (depending on alignment) but the 315's need ~ 1/4" less backspacing.

If I did it over again, I'd probably try 17's first. That's the direction I was going for SSM. Ideally something like 17x10.75" fronts and 17x11.5" rears. Should be pretty easy to get the 17's to be about 2lbs lighter a wheel. There will be a whole host of new clearance issues both front and rear though... A-arms, steering lock, unibody, etc...
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Old Jul 25, 2012 | 04:17 AM
  #48  
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Thanks for the info Jason and good luck!
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Old Jul 25, 2012 | 05:36 AM
  #49  
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Is their a point where you get to to large of wheels and they kill your power? I would think I'd have a hard time breaking loose a 315 a6 on a 17x11.5 wheel. Do u have any idea what your car weights?

Thanks for all the info man!!
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Old Jul 25, 2012 | 08:48 AM
  #50  
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Wow! Thanks for the great download of your thoughts and setup. Do you have any power numbers? With the ItBs vs without would be even better.

I'm one of many contiplating changing over to BSP next season. It looks like fun.
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