I don't really see any reason to include transmission gears, but also don't really see a reason not to include it. The thing is that for example in our cars it's not needed, and it doesn't enhance performance, so no reason to do it, so it seems like it will help people that really want to bulletproof their car while not hurting the people that don't want to spend the money. If someone feels it's worth the cost to cryo treat their transmission gears and be really safe then they can do it. My gut still says we should minimize the rules to ones that we need so we shouldn't add this, but I'm not strongly opposed.

Where it becomes slippery and I can see the other angle is in classes where a certain car would be a top car, but isn't because of reliability issues, like ESP as Mike mentioned. Even there I think that's the exception rather than the rule...is there another class other than ESP where this is true? And realistically, aside from class inertia, I think if a simple thing like cryo treating can make a car reliable enough to compete...then you should be allowed to do it. Anyone that's competing at that high of a level will be opening the diff to install an LSD anyway.

Otherwise you get a less fun sport - I don't like worrying about if my diff is going to break any second. I don't like not being able to participate in one of the event formats or being hesitant to take on a codriver and being at a tire heat disadvantage just because of arbitrary reasons.

For BSP it's less of a big deal since you're trailering anyway so you can just bring a diff, but for an ST car...I only trailer to the far away events. If I'm in NJ or PA at a local event and my diff breaks I'm screwed.

 

I really must be the only guy driving to and from events

 

I don't really see any reason to include transmission gears, but also don't really see a reason not to include it. The thing is that for example in our cars it's not needed, and it doesn't enhance performance, so no reason to do it, so it seems like it will help people that really want to bulletproof their car while not hurting the people that don't want to spend the money. If someone feels it's worth the cost to cryo treat their transmission gears and be really safe then they can do it. My gut still says we should minimize the rules to ones that we need so we shouldn't add this, but I'm not strongly opposed.

Where it becomes slippery and I can see the other angle is in classes where a certain car would be a top car, but isn't because of reliability issues, like ESP as Mike mentioned. Even there I think that's the exception rather than the rule...is there another class other than ESP where this is true? And realistically, aside from class inertia, I think if a simple thing like cryo treating can make a car reliable enough to compete...then you should be allowed to do it. Anyone that's competing at that high of a level will be opening the diff to install an LSD anyway.

Otherwise you get a less fun sport - I don't like worrying about if my diff is going to break any second. I don't like not being able to participate in one of the event formats or being hesitant to take on a codriver and being at a tire heat disadvantage just because of arbitrary reasons.

For BSP it's less of a big deal since you're trailering anyway so you can just bring a diff, but for an ST car...I only trailer to the far away events. If I'm in NJ or PA at a local event and my diff breaks I'm screwed.
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The only reason I brought up the transmission gears was the reason Mike said, though add in any SP class a WRX competes in.
I can hear the people say" If you can treat diff gears, why not transmission gears because a gear is a gear"
Talon's and WRX's would use the "no performance advantage, ,only reliability improvement" logic just as being used here. I know the WRX guys would welcome cryo treated tranny gears, that fragile 2nd gear would be first on their list.

 

Maybe I'm crazy but I really have no issues someone adding a reliability mod to their car for a few reasons:

1) I don't want to win because I'm the only guy that was actually able to leave the line.
2) Because I'm not a dick, I'd probably seriously consider allowing a competitor who did break a part to hop into my car so we can compete. Problem is, if I let that person drive my car and one of us breaks my car too then we're both screwed
3) Autox is still primarily a driver sport. Sure those of us who get to mod can do so at our own risks but a mod that isn't going to change the time you're going to turn out is fine by me.
4) I have a feeling that BSP guys are going to end up in bump class for most prosolo events because of people abstaining from competition to protect the car.

I know the number one counter argument to #3 is that some cars that are very fragile might suddenly become competitive but hey, the more the merrier right? Just ask STR. Plus, don't tell me you don't want to see a bunch of SP cars launch at prosolos at redline? You know you'd love it.

 

X7million

Who wants to win because they are the only person that didn't break the car. In the S2K world we stick together and develop together, that's how we keep the car at the top of every class it runs in. No offense to the the 350z guy that larks our forum but my money is on the S2K if we can hold the car together.

Fastest car around the autox course will always be the skinniest, lightest, highest grip holding SOB and that my friend all falls under the S2000. Now if you'd like to win a race because the S2000 just couldn't hold the diff together then more power to you but to me thats the winnie way of winning. I myself want the best possible race to test my driver ability. I'm the guy thats lossing and walks up to the guy winning and give him a tip on where he can go faster. If that means allowing reliablity mods such as cyro coating the diff parts then so be it. We race autox, not formula 1. We can't afford to replace diffs every two races, noone can, Not even CKit.

To be honest the sheer talant driving S2000s is amazing and I can't wait to watch some of these guys doing work on every other car in the class. Watch and see.

 

As I have stated before, ultimately I think the s2k is the car. I've got my car/driver combo down 100lbs since last year, up in power, aero and more wheel/tire this year. I also have the advantage of running this car in relative trim for a while now. That said, I know it's an uphill battle. I only started autocrossing 2 years ago, so I still have lots to learn. Also, reliability issues won't be limited to s2k's. I broke at more events last year than I completed. At least with the S2k's there are others out there to bounce ideas off of, and reference parts/results. It is me and one other Z (who rarely competes due to work) in the whole country. I come here because BSP cars are being built, and I like to follow the progress. All I want is a strong, healthy class at every event where we all have fun and go fast. The bottom line is rules have to be adopted by all SP classes, and you aren't going to get a favorable reaction from a lot of them for cryo'd diffs, gears, etc. I'm indifferent at this point on it too be honest.

 

with air i can do it in 18. i practiced last winter for when my diff breaks. brought along a can of nitrogen for big events last year to use for air tools
but i dont think under that is possible.. note that i did not include putting the rear of the car on stands or pulling rear tires. add 3 minutes if your ready to go

 

I think we all know given the polarization that comes with any proposed rules changes there's no way we're getting cryo approved. Sometimes though I wish we used more natural common sense in creating and applying rules. If you walk up and down paddock on any given race day I don't think any one can find anyone that wants to see our competitors suffer a mechanical but it's damn near impossible to write a perfect rule that allows reliability upgrades without creating a loophole certain competitors will take advantage of so nothing ever gets written even though everyone is thinking the same thing. I guess that's just the name of the game. I honestly don't know how many times my car will get towed out of an event before I give up but I'm going to try anyway.

 

That's impressive! So I'm mechanically challenged, don't have a trailer and I'm competing in SP. this year is definitely going to get interesting

 

You only need 1.5 seconds on a 60 second course over STR times to match them in PAX. I feel even with "small" hooisers that is doable. Tires alone will give you atleast half that gain of not more.