I remember watching some TV show a while ago where Acura was introducing some new formula car and they had the chassis on multi-post shaker thing and they developed the damping the best they could. They put it on the track and it sucked. It was back to the drawing board for them. If Acura can't work it out with millions of dollars and incredibly smart people, I doubt any of us can either.

So far this year, I've done some changes that are interesting. For the sake of fun and for the fact that nobody seems to run what I do, here's what I've noticed so far:

I installed a 2006 rear bar to replace my 2000 bar. That's about a 100lb/in difference. At the same time I dialed my rear toe from almost 3/8" toe-in to zero. Prior to these changes, my car had a very hard time putting down power on corner exit on slick lots (it worked pretty well in Lincoln). After these two changes, the car was easy to drive out of corners and was much more driftable even on a slick asphalt lot in 55* weather. I thought it was very interesting that 100lbs/in of sway bar was more effective than a bunch of rear toe-in at settling the car especially after I determined that rear toe was incredibly powerful.

 

I have not had this kind of problem with the multiple Gendron bars, but this was quite common with the Saner FSB. With that bar, it was easily fixed by just lubing the bushings. I ended up with the mounts with the grease fittings so I could easily lube them without having to remove the bar. As soon as I heard a clunk, I lubed it up and was good to go for several months.

Now, I did have a problem with my 1st Gendron bar at a Peru, IN national tour where it moved around so much that it pushed the bushing out of the mount. After spinning out 3 times in one run Marc knew something was wrong as I rarely ever spun out... Bill was swift to address this and was quickly resolved.

If you figure out what happened, let us know.

-D

 

Did you get the ones from Bill? I found that, with the ones he sent, I was unable to torque down the nuts on the 3rd and 4th settings because I couldn't get the wrench in there to hold it. I ended up ordering new ones from McMaster Carr, where the bolts actually go through the rod ends so I could get a wrench on it easier. I need to tighten everything down again, a slight popping has reappeared, but this time I intend to loctite everything, including the lock washers as I think that's what's causing the minor clunking I'm experiencing now.

Here's the McMaster Carr part #s I ordered:
91412A460
93839A815
90648A215
4483T401
4483T241

The bolts ended up being about a half inch too short, so I had to go to Lowes and pick up some replacements.

For the record, I have the 1 3/8" hollow bar and run it on 4/6 currently.

 

My gendron endlinks have play in them and I also have a clunk on bumps. I would assume its the links.

 

I'd probably go with grade 8 or at least grade 5 bolts and locknuts instead of the stainless ones if anyone's copying this to be safe, otherwise thanks for posting the part numbers and confirming that the rod ends aren't too long. I think I'll probably end up doing that too because it's annoying not really being able to tighten it. I need to use a stubby wrench and it takes me a while. It'd be much nicer/quicker to just have a bolt.

So I guess:
91257A630 for the bolts (grade 8 and 1 3/4" instead of the 1 1/4 you posted)
97135A230 for the locknuts (grade 8)
4483T401
4483T241
93839A815

It'd probably be a good idea to add 3/8 washers too

 

I have the 1.375" hollow by the way...one of the first ones made when everything was still custom. I do have the newer ball bearing mounts though.

 

It would actually put a lot of load on the outside front with that setup. It would reduce overall grip but it would give more grip to the rear tires. Personally, I think it's going too far and you're right, the overall grip would be too low, but to each his own. With the right sway bar tuning it could work well but I don't really see the reason not to run more closely matched springs.

Look, I'm a science and numbers guy. I'm an automotive engineer, and one that sometimes gets shit at work for being too theory/calculation based. And I still think you're relying on numbers waaay too much.

Everything cannot be figured out using numbers and theory. That is where your issue is. You're right that the numbers can guide you to good things to try, but that's really all they can do. There are way too many unknowns to be able to calculate this perfectly with numbers. Your calculations are very simplistic and do not account for a lot of things that are going on.

For example, a large part of the reason I want to run with no rear bar is because sway bars impart a force that works to actually lift the inside wheel as the outer wheel compresses. Springs do not do that. I really want to keep maximum rear traction so keeping the inside rear on the ground would be good. Where is that in your calculations?

As the rest of your post said, there are many competing goals. The only way to know which balance of compromises is correct is to try it.

 

I guess theirs more then one way to skin a cat.

Thanks for posting endlink numbers that will work. I've seen people post 10+ times asking for part numbers that will work but I never see anyone answer the question. I use a stubby to get on the nut (pain in the ass btw) and a 1/2 inch 3/8 socket on my 14.4v snap-on impact. I can change the setting fairly quick. It also amazes me how much alittle +/- makes on the handling of the car. Im gonna like a rear bar that's adjustable.

06 rear bar and zero toe? I'd be all over the place with that set-up unless your springs are a big stagger, big difference in front to rear camber or the rear is lower then the front. Pm me your full set-up if you get bored. I'd like to look at it.

 

Currently running 900lb front with Monster bar on full stiff. 750lb rear springs. The car tends to understeer at this moment but just a touch. Feels pretty great but I expect that to change when I install the diff.

 

Is there a reason to even care about front wheel lift? Mentally, I've never had an association between wheel lift and mechanical grip, but maybe my intuition is off on this one.

Seems to me that a wheel in the air isn't significantly worse than a wheel on the ground that is almost completely unweighted. Graphically speaking... I wouldn't expect to see a "step change" (drop) in mechanical grip as soon a tire lifts. Rather, I'd assume the the weight has shifted complete to the other side of the car pressing that tire into the ground hard increasing it's grip (in the same way downforce would increase grip).

Maybe you lose other things like the cantilever turn in action that front tow-out provides? But, would lots of effort to keep the front tire on the ground really help front grip?

(disclaimer: I am in no way an expert. please tell me if my assumptions are wrong)