View Poll Results: What front sway bar do you use?
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STR Prep - Sway Bars
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Joined: Jul 2008
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I remember watching some TV show a while ago where Acura was introducing some new formula car and they had the chassis on multi-post shaker thing and they developed the damping the best they could. They put it on the track and it sucked. 
It was back to the drawing board for them. If Acura can't work it out with millions of dollars and incredibly smart people, I doubt any of us can either.
So far this year, I've done some changes that are interesting. For the sake of fun and for the fact that nobody seems to run what I do, here's what I've noticed so far:
I installed a 2006 rear bar to replace my 2000 bar. That's about a 100lb/in difference. At the same time I dialed my rear toe from almost 3/8" toe-in to zero. Prior to these changes, my car had a very hard time putting down power on corner exit on slick lots (it worked pretty well in Lincoln). After these two changes, the car was easy to drive out of corners and was much more driftable even on a slick asphalt lot in 55* weather. I thought it was very interesting that 100lbs/in of sway bar was more effective than a bunch of rear toe-in at settling the car especially after I determined that rear toe was incredibly powerful.
It was back to the drawing board for them. If Acura can't work it out with millions of dollars and incredibly smart people, I doubt any of us can either.So far this year, I've done some changes that are interesting. For the sake of fun and for the fact that nobody seems to run what I do, here's what I've noticed so far:
I installed a 2006 rear bar to replace my 2000 bar. That's about a 100lb/in difference. At the same time I dialed my rear toe from almost 3/8" toe-in to zero. Prior to these changes, my car had a very hard time putting down power on corner exit on slick lots (it worked pretty well in Lincoln). After these two changes, the car was easy to drive out of corners and was much more driftable even on a slick asphalt lot in 55* weather. I thought it was very interesting that 100lbs/in of sway bar was more effective than a bunch of rear toe-in at settling the car especially after I determined that rear toe was incredibly powerful.
So you added more rear bar, and went O toe in on an AP1, and it tamed the rear? Epic. I am wondering why that would be the case. Perhaps the geometry of toe arms in the 0' total position reduces the ratio of toe gain/loss under compression and extension? And more bar limiting suspension travel. So even though you have less built in slip angle to tame the rear, and quicker loading via more bar, you still get a more stable rear. Interesting. I personally love the feel of less toe in the rear of most FR cars, and ran 0 in our ES miata with great results. Pretty cool Matt.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Frankfort, KY
Nice! I bet the transitions are amazing! Still on star-specs?
How do you know what configuration to put the diff in at? It would be crappy to have to tear it down 3-4 times to get the disk in the locking configuration you want. Did you see grassroots testing in putting a diff in the mx5? They ended up being just a hair slower on the test course then with the diff. In some sections it was faster but in others it was slower. I wish they tested the s2k since it has more power.
How do you know what configuration to put the diff in at? It would be crappy to have to tear it down 3-4 times to get the disk in the locking configuration you want. Did you see grassroots testing in putting a diff in the mx5? They ended up being just a hair slower on the test course then with the diff. In some sections it was faster but in others it was slower. I wish they tested the s2k since it has more power.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Seattle, WA
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,531
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From: Tucson
I am liking the miata bar on the rear. With the current setup (rear bar on) it is very neutral on most surfaces and course features. It can push a bit on slow tight turns, but adapted to via driving change. If the back end is loose at all I just disconnect one end of the bar to get back to neutral. It's a nice balance overall currently.
I'm sure the adjustable rear bar can achieve this and more. I just feel the difference between the miata bar on and off is very subtle and useable.
I'm sure the adjustable rear bar can achieve this and more. I just feel the difference between the miata bar on and off is very subtle and useable.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,531
Likes: 3
From: Tucson
Originally Posted by glagola1' timestamp='1326984547' post='21331620
I remember watching some TV show a while ago where Acura was introducing some new formula car and they had the chassis on multi-post shaker thing and they developed the damping the best they could. They put it on the track and it sucked. It was back to the drawing board for them. If Acura can't work it out with millions of dollars and incredibly smart people, I doubt any of us can either.
So far this year, I've done some changes that are interesting. For the sake of fun and for the fact that nobody seems to run what I do, here's what I've noticed so far:
I installed a 2006 rear bar to replace my 2000 bar. That's about a 100lb/in difference. At the same time I dialed my rear toe from almost 3/8" toe-in to zero. Prior to these changes, my car had a very hard time putting down power on corner exit on slick lots (it worked pretty well in Lincoln). After these two changes, the car was easy to drive out of corners and was much more driftable even on a slick asphalt lot in 55* weather. I thought it was very interesting that 100lbs/in of sway bar was more effective than a bunch of rear toe-in at settling the car especially after I determined that rear toe was incredibly powerful.
It was back to the drawing board for them. If Acura can't work it out with millions of dollars and incredibly smart people, I doubt any of us can either.So far this year, I've done some changes that are interesting. For the sake of fun and for the fact that nobody seems to run what I do, here's what I've noticed so far:
I installed a 2006 rear bar to replace my 2000 bar. That's about a 100lb/in difference. At the same time I dialed my rear toe from almost 3/8" toe-in to zero. Prior to these changes, my car had a very hard time putting down power on corner exit on slick lots (it worked pretty well in Lincoln). After these two changes, the car was easy to drive out of corners and was much more driftable even on a slick asphalt lot in 55* weather. I thought it was very interesting that 100lbs/in of sway bar was more effective than a bunch of rear toe-in at settling the car especially after I determined that rear toe was incredibly powerful.
So you added more rear bar, and went O toe in on an AP1, and it tamed the rear? Epic. I am wondering why that would be the case. Perhaps the geometry of toe arms in the 0' total position reduces the ratio of toe gain/loss under compression and extension? And more bar limiting suspension travel. So even though you have less built in slip angle to tame the rear, and quicker loading via more bar, you still get a more stable rear. Interesting. I personally love the feel of less toe in the rear of most FR cars, and ran 0 in our ES miata with great results. Pretty cool Matt.My observation is that you can get toe in on compression if your rear ride height is low enough. I don't know what that ride height is, but if the rear control arm (toe link) is near horizontal (level) or above then under compression toe in will occur because the arc of the control arm will pull the front of the hub inward. This would be the outside rear wheel when loaded up.
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Atlanta
Nick misunderstood my changes and Leach clarified it for him. I'm pretty sure the toe curve for the rear is mostly linear so lowering the car doesn't effect it too much. I haven't verified that but I did find on this board a diagram of the curve some dude made.
I don't know what my ride heights are. I just made the car look right and I've been tuning the other suspension parts.
I don't know what my ride heights are. I just made the car look right and I've been tuning the other suspension parts.
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My observation is that you can get toe in on compression if your rear ride height is low enough. I don't know what that ride height is, but if the rear control arm (toe link) is near horizontal (level) or above then under compression toe in will occur because the arc of the control arm will pull the front of the hub inward. This would be the outside rear wheel when loaded up.