[QUOTE=ThuG LyFe,Apr 4 2008, 11:40 PM]how is that bs?

 

Every time the pistons move in the cylinder there is some degree of wear, right? Why use it to slow the car down when you don't have to? I'm not saying there are times that you shouldn't engine brake, but all the time? Why?

Brake pads/rotors are cheap!

I'd rather save my engine wear for acceleration!

 

Is it possible to roll at 10mph in like 4th gear? If not then if you don't want to just stick it in neutral and brake, you'd have to downshift a couple gears then brake.

 

I don't get the whole rev matching to "save the brakes" thing. The brakes are specifically there to slow the car down. That's its main function, why would you not want to use them? Rev matching is used to make the transition of slowing down to accelerating again smoother. It is completely useless if you're going to come to a complete stop. You're just wasting gas.

I also believe that there is no "right or "wrong" way to drive a manual. The only time you're doing it wrong is when you're always bogging on shifts or grinding gears.

 

You are exactly right!

There is no "right way" to drive a car, regardless of the transmission type. Sometimes there are particular techniques or styles that offer advantages in certain situations, but on the street it is just a fact of life that the vast majority of drivers have little or no interest in such things. For better or worse, most people get by with just enough knowledge to pass a drivers exam. Most people define a "good driver" as one who somehow avoids accidents and tickets. Others define a "good driver" based on things like smoothness, finesse, or some other practiced skill. Clearly, if there is no general agreement on what constitutes a "good driver," there will never be general agreement on what constitutes good driving.

Bad driving, or bad technique and/or style, is often easier to nail down, but even there it can sometimes be impossible to find universal agreement.

I am also a little skeptical about downshifting to "save the brakes," at least in the kind of situation you're presenting (coming to a complete stop, presumably on the street where you are stopping in a rather casual manner). When driving hard though, downshifting can (at least sometimes) make a HUGE difference. During SESM 2004, just before our lunch stop, I got into a little dicing with another member. We started out near the back of the pack of S2000's, and blew past most of the other cars along the way. Then we stopped for lunch, and I was shocked to hear some of the guys we'd blown past complaining about brake fade. I couldn't help laughing and telling them that their brakes were overheating becaues they were using them too much, but the real reason their brakes were overheating at their slower speeds was because they were not driving in the lowest gear possible the way I was. On those mountain roads, downshifting makes the difference between having the brakes overheat, and not having the brakes overheat.

Both downshifting and upshifting are skills in which most good drivers take pride. Being able to do such things well takes practice, and you can never get too much practice. As a result, the drivers who practice the most tend to have more finely honed skills. The very best drivers practice at every opportunity. That means downshifting and upshifting whenever it's reasonable (and we couldn't all agree on a definition of "reasonable" either ), and that kind of constant practice is truely what seperates the very best drivers from the also-rans.

It's the same with other skills, like smoothness or balance. It's a hoot to yank the wheel of the S2000 and feel it snatch itself into a turn, but you learn nothing useful from such exercises. A driver who wants to improve himself is constantly practicing smooth control inputs and keeping the car balanced, whether he's racing, or driving to Starbuck's.

Not everyone is interested in improving or developing skills that are primarily useful only in racing or other forms of competition, but a few are, and you find many such people driving cars like the S2000. In fact, it's easy to think they'd be in the majority, but this car is a Honda, and that seems to attract a lot of people who could not care less about improving their skills; They buy the car because it's cool and fun to drive, probably the base reason we all buy the car, but they drive it and see it differently. This should not cause anyone any grief, but it seems to worry people too much when it comes up as a topic here on S2kI.

I'll put this forward as a fact, even though the only support I have is my own personal experience and the experiences of those I have raced and autocrossed with. People who constantly practice their skills, and smooth, balanced, driving techniques, have far fewer problems with their cars. Clutches and brake pads last longer, and all else being equal, even tires last longer.

I am a habitual downshifter. I do it for practice, to keep my edge. I never have to replace a clutch before 100,000 miles, so anyone who thinks downshifting wears out the clutch is simply mistaken. I've already explained why earlier in this thread, but I guess people are posting without reading the entire thread first.
I also run the crap out of all my cars, and my cars remain like new for decades. Our little red MX-5 is now 18 years old, and runs as well today as it did the day we bought it, in spite of the fact that it has been driven hard and put up wet for nearly two decades and well over 100,000 miles. When someone tells me that the way I drive it is causing excessive wear, it's hard not to laugh in their face. My engines (which often get modified to make more power), my drivelines, and my cars in general, last at least as long as anyone else's, and actually stay like new far longer than most.

Bottom line here is simple, but know-nothings will never figure it out.
It's not how hard you drive the car that matters.
It's how you drive the car hard that makes all the difference.

Thinking to the contrary is just misinformed and runaway imagination lacking the backing of real world experience.

As for downshifting, sometimes it cost, sometimes it saves, and it always serves as practice for those who really care about honing their skills. Anyone who can't understand that after reading this entire thread simply isn't paying attention.

 

Downshifting with the rev matching for the most part, but everyone does a little of all 3, depending on the situation

 

depends on my mood.

 

There is only one right answer to the 3 options given...

 

I've done them all. If I am approaching a light expecting green as I approach: downshift-rev match...if I don't think, neutral and brake. You can wear out your brakes or jack your tranny. I rather buy new brakes. I have had stupid moments forgetting to rev-match during downshift.

 

Brake pads & rotors are ALWAYS easier to replace than a clutch,& USUALLY cheaper to replace,ALSO.