While I generally agree that the best way to correct human error is to design idiot-proof (i.e. human-proof) systems, I do not agree that a mistaken downshift leading to over-revving leading to engine damage is likely in normal driving by a normally skilled driver.

I've never done it and I'm no great shakes as a driver. I've never even come close. Also, I don't race, don't drag race, and don't expect to break 10 seconds zero to sixty in my S2000.

The way you prevent it is to shift carefully and to let the clutch out carefully when you downshift. If you're using your car competitively this luxurious shifting method will cost you the race every time.

If you're going to race, you're going to blow engines and that's just the price of admission.

Missing a downshift and revving to 12,000 rpm and destroying the engine is human error, just like driving off of a cliff. Just my opinion.

 

Barry, well said. I do think Destiny's idea has a lot of merit though. I honestly don't know why the manufacturers haven't insulated themselves by designing an over-rev downshift lockout mechanism. Probably cost. I think that'd be a neat feature. I wonder if folks would react with the "I don't want the car thinking for me" type of mindset.

As some historical perspective, I recall various manual trannies used to be designed to lock out lower gears during upshifts to make the driver keep the revs low and save gas. Also, do you remember the lighted arrows on dashboards telling you when to upshift...? Same thing in both cases. Folks did not take kindly to these interventions. Maybe a downshift lockout would suffer the same fate.

It's a damn fine idea, though, if you ask me (not that anyone was askin')! Let's face it, without modern tech, we would never have a car like the S2000... Could you imagine if we didn't have a rev limiter on this thing? People would blow engines just by listening to the beautiful sound on highway entrance ramps! Folks on this board would not be advocating driving to the red line all the time!!! That would seriously diminish the driving experience, don't you think?

Best wishes!

 

While I generally agree with Barry that people should have a certain amount of skill and training, I think that Destiny's idea is a good one. Its an interesting idea that an innovative company like Honda should examine. I also agree with Chazmo, that if the idea was implemented there would be plenty of objections.

Getting back to the original thread, like Legal Bill, I don't know what a bent piston is. Please explain. Also, why hasn't fast-miami replied yet?

 

Rob,

There doesn't seem to be any more information coming about fast-miami's woes. This happens occasionally, unfortunately. Someone gets us all worked up and then disappears. We can't help someone if they don't follow up with us.

Hopefully he'll post eventually and let us know what happens.

Best wishes, Rob!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]Rob,

There doesn't seem to be any more information coming about fast-miami's woes.

 

Maybe getting off the original topic is a good idea. I like the idea of a downshift lockout. Yes, I had a Z28 with the upshift lockout, so I know the technology is already in existence. Here is where I see the problem, if you are Honda, or any manufacturer, where do you set the lock out? I'm concerned that to avoid liability, they would set it well below the redline of the lower gear.

 

I don't think preventing a downshift that prevents engine destruction is help people wouldn't want

This is a high-revving sports car. It doesn't necessarily take racing conditions to downshift from 5th to 4th to pass, and it ends up in overrevving 2nd by mistake.

 

I have to say I'm learning a lot from you guys. I visited my car at the dealer today. Unfortunately, the service manager I was dealing was off today. What I did find out is that my valves were slightly bent, my engine never stalled, it was just my engine went light went on from a cold start and prior to that I was driving in traffic, stop and go. I couldn't even tell the difference in how it was running (okay you all can say it, that's a female for ya), but my brother heard the tap, tap, tap and suggested I bring it in. I know I may have accidentally downshifted, but not at a high speed where you hear a grinding noise as most people have described to me when you over rev, but that was early on when I was getting use to the double H shifting 3 yrs. ago when I bought the car, just use to 5 gears. Anyway, they are persuading me to keep trying with AHC and maybe talk to the dealership district manager to see if they would at least do a "one time courtesy fix" since it still under warranty.

Anyway, thanks to all who have written me to help me understand all the different things that may have caused the problem. I'll keep you posted on the progress of my negotiations with AHC

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eleki-SD-Calif.
[B]I have to say I'm learning a lot from you guys.

 

Okay, hope I don't insult anyone by saying this, since you all seem to truly be enthusiasts and are into the engines, but you all were talking about whether or not a fail safe way of preventing downshifts should be an added feature, I tend to agree, for people like me who even though I've driven a stick all my life, may have done something accidentally to cause this problem which as stated in prior postings, "we're all human and nobody's perfect". In 1999, I said to myself, if Honda ever came out with a convertible I'd get one, because I have been a loyal Honda customer. We have 7 Hondas between 6 of us in my family. I love the body style, the fact that it's a convertible and a Honda, so couldn't they have made a version with an automatic transmission? You have that choice with BMW Z3's? Don't all get mad at me at once, but at least for all those that may have accidentally blown out engines, bent valves, etc. etc. etc, might want the car entirely on looks and the Honda reputation? Did they only make it in manual transmission because it's being marketed as a high performance sports car or because they also wanted to have the exclusivity of having limited editions and people paying mark-ups to get a hold of these cars. (Just a thought)! I actually wanted to switch over to an automatic transmission at the time, because I was living in the Bay Area, lots of traffic, stop and go most of the time, but didn't have a choice. Good thing I knew how to drive a stick.