CNC Speedshop built engine
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 233
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From: France
In their defense I have not heard of one stoker kit complaint or rear diff issue. It sounds like Jason himself does excellent work, but his minions he employed can't be trusted. If it was my shop and my reputation I would double check everyone's work before it left the shop, especially a small business. I also don't buy the horse sh#% that people are to busy to give updates on your motor build...seriously in this day and age of instant messaging and cell phones a few pics of the parts going in and progress would take what, a few minutes? Yeah they screwed up and I'm sure Jason would have fixed the issue with a plane ride but the OP did compound the problem by suddenly selling his car and not needing a motor.
We as a community need shops like CNC for some of the good work and ideas they have brought to the table. Yeah they screwed up but kudos to them for at least admitting the problem.
Hopefully things will get worked out somehow.
We as a community need shops like CNC for some of the good work and ideas they have brought to the table. Yeah they screwed up but kudos to them for at least admitting the problem.
Hopefully things will get worked out somehow.
Between February and May, it was a "left to right" discussion.
As i said before we planned to do a track season in Europe this year, we booked some in advance by confidence to him and the engine but all things go the wrong way.
S2k was blocked and not running since September 2013, we paid 8500$ + shipping to France for damaged and wrong parts.
We thought and worked on other solutions to be able to don't waste booked tracks, so we bought another car.
So seeing your car blocked for nearly 3 years, paid nearly 10k $ for something finally that not work in my point of view, we wait a long time a be patient all this time.
Take into account to that we planned to worked with him by telling that we'll go with him for mapping and maybe buy his intake manifold because all reviews that we seen on him seems to be good. But how can i trust him in my situation now ?
What we really not appreciate is Cnc/wadzii proposed/imposed "graciously" to refund us only 2500$ for problematic parts that costs twice as much for us and then said here :
I'll be making one post here and only one.
We did screw up and send out Rudy's motor with the wrong parts. I acknowledged that and agreed to fly to his place, tear everything down, replace all the parts that were wrong etc. This wasnt good enough so a few weeks later I receive a motor completely torn down and missing parts. I agree'd that if the block was bad, etc then I would give him a full refund for everything since he had since sold the s2000.
[...]
If there had been problems with my work we would have given him a full refund for the motor or fixed it and sent it back to him. There were no problems with the motor. If he had put it in the car it'd still be running today and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
We did screw up and send out Rudy's motor with the wrong parts. I acknowledged that and agreed to fly to his place, tear everything down, replace all the parts that were wrong etc. This wasnt good enough so a few weeks later I receive a motor completely torn down and missing parts. I agree'd that if the block was bad, etc then I would give him a full refund for everything since he had since sold the s2000.
[...]
If there had been problems with my work we would have given him a full refund for the motor or fixed it and sent it back to him. There were no problems with the motor. If he had put it in the car it'd still be running today and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Jason Wadsworth <jason@centralncspeedshop.com> wrote this email 2 March 2015 :
I'm extremely sorry here.. those rods and that cylinder head were supposed to go in the motor that is in our shops car. Last year I had a guy working for me that was doing some engine assembly after I had measured everything. Basically I did the blueprint and he bolted everything together. We had 3 engines pretty much identical going together along with yours. That cylinder head came off of a motor that had eaten a spark plug, which is what the divots are, they dont hurt anything but obviously I dont want to send that out!
I'm not in a position to be able to give you a full refund, what I can do is ship you one of our darton sleeved blocks along with the pistons it was bored for, correct the arp +625 bolts for those rods (the skunk2, brian crower and inline pro rods are all exactly the same rod with a different logo on it) and a headgasket. The ceramic coat always has some texture to it, not sure if thats what you are seeing. It's tough to tell from the pictures.
I showed all of the pictures of the block to my machinist, he said the block had to have cracked in order for the sleeves to move that much. The final process of installing the sleeves is to deck the block.
I can get you another cylinder head, I dont have any ready to go but I can in a week. Running that head isnt going to hurt anything as it is.. thats up to you.
If you want to keep that head I'll refund you the $300 for the core, and I'll also refund you the $900 for assembling the engine. I would ask that we get the broken block and pistons shipped back to us.
Again I apologize, and if it makes any difference I am the only one that touches anything in the shop now, the 2 guys that were working for me have been let go for various screwup's along these lines.
I'm extremely sorry here.. those rods and that cylinder head were supposed to go in the motor that is in our shops car. Last year I had a guy working for me that was doing some engine assembly after I had measured everything. Basically I did the blueprint and he bolted everything together. We had 3 engines pretty much identical going together along with yours. That cylinder head came off of a motor that had eaten a spark plug, which is what the divots are, they dont hurt anything but obviously I dont want to send that out!
I'm not in a position to be able to give you a full refund, what I can do is ship you one of our darton sleeved blocks along with the pistons it was bored for, correct the arp +625 bolts for those rods (the skunk2, brian crower and inline pro rods are all exactly the same rod with a different logo on it) and a headgasket. The ceramic coat always has some texture to it, not sure if thats what you are seeing. It's tough to tell from the pictures.
I showed all of the pictures of the block to my machinist, he said the block had to have cracked in order for the sleeves to move that much. The final process of installing the sleeves is to deck the block.
I can get you another cylinder head, I dont have any ready to go but I can in a week. Running that head isnt going to hurt anything as it is.. thats up to you.
If you want to keep that head I'll refund you the $300 for the core, and I'll also refund you the $900 for assembling the engine. I would ask that we get the broken block and pistons shipped back to us.
Again I apologize, and if it makes any difference I am the only one that touches anything in the shop now, the 2 guys that were working for me have been let go for various screwup's along these lines.
To finish this answer make me sick :
Originally Posted by baZurk' timestamp='1441902142' post='23743036
So you offered a refund, was it ever completed? Can you explain the attempts described by Tom that were made to terminate communication between you two?
But when we asked for information not give us any answer but his staff or him found the time to erase my bro on Facebook and blocked him by FB messenger too.
Just be serious a bit.
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Not too many people can build a s2000 engine. but this is just crazy that these shops are doing this to s2000 customers. In my eyes when you order a built engine and they build you an engine with different parts I see it as a scam. Most likely they have these parts laying around and they used it for your engine in hopes that you will never fine out. SCAM!!! You send the wrong parts back and they agree to refund you some money then they don't refund you and cut off all communication. SCAM!!!!! All this stuff does not happen. This shop must be operation with very litter to no capital. I feel they are with going to either finally refund you and slowly go out of business or just all of a sudden disappear with your $$ just like a lot of out tunning shops that come and go.
This goes out to all the high performance s2000 forced induction guys.
Why the hell are we building our f20c/f22c engine for? Just for fun? what the hell is the point? the stock engines are proven to be very very reliable at over 700whp. Hell my stock f20c in my car makes over 600whp for many many years and it has 125,000 miles on it. A brand new built oem f22c short block can be has for $3000 straight from honda. Used head can be had for $500 all day and are easy as hell to rebuild. Unless your building a full out drag car and chasing 8 second 1/4 miles times theres is no point to build the f20c/f22c.
When you boost a s2000 its considered a very serious modification. If you don't have the know how or the willingness to work or learn to work on your own car/ doing your own engine swaps/ swap out your own clutch/ install your own turbo system/ DON'T BOOST YOUR CAR!!!!
This goes out to all the high performance s2000 forced induction guys.
Why the hell are we building our f20c/f22c engine for? Just for fun? what the hell is the point? the stock engines are proven to be very very reliable at over 700whp. Hell my stock f20c in my car makes over 600whp for many many years and it has 125,000 miles on it. A brand new built oem f22c short block can be has for $3000 straight from honda. Used head can be had for $500 all day and are easy as hell to rebuild. Unless your building a full out drag car and chasing 8 second 1/4 miles times theres is no point to build the f20c/f22c.
When you boost a s2000 its considered a very serious modification. If you don't have the know how or the willingness to work or learn to work on your own car/ doing your own engine swaps/ swap out your own clutch/ install your own turbo system/ DON'T BOOST YOUR CAR!!!!
The day it blows, if ever im swapping in a f22 short block NEW from honda. At the end of the day you can never beat brand new factory assembled units for the cost and peace of mind. With that being said this is what i see wrong with all this.
From the minute the engine left the shop with out proper inspection and the wrong/bad parts that would have been grounds for a refund in my book. Period the end. What happened after is all BS in my opinion. Some one ordered the parts for the motor some one paid the invoice for said parts someone had to have control and inventory of parts going into the motor. The fact the parts were wrong/bad/not there is not the customer/end users fault nor problem. Customer should have had money wired on the spot with a logistics solution provided by seller to recover the motor.
I work at a automotive shop and our primary source of income is over seas orders, primarily south america. Shit happens no ones perfect. The difference of keeping a customer and a good reputation is how you deal with the problem. Ive had parts sit in customs for weeks because of some BS political melt down and had to resend parts on the company's dime to make the customer happy while logistics got sorted. Not my fault nor the customers. At the end of the day he got his parts, i kept a customer, and gained a few because of how highly he spoke about us. my .02
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 233
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From: France
I never had big problems with the shops in USA. I bought parts from Evasive, SOS, Fullblown and it's always been parts that I ordered.
Just a few years ago, my were car running a turbo kit Mase. I never had a problem with. Steve (Mase) coming to France and finishing the custom map. I'm running it during 2 years. Then I changed my project, to switch TTS SC because I couldn't go on all European circuits due to noise restriction. I'm rolled with stock engine and FI during 65000kms. Then in 2013, I wanted a new project with a new engine (F22 doesn't exist in Europe). And now we're here.
Jason propose to take the airplane and correct his mistake. Coming with new short block sleeved, new cylinder head, new parts. Puttinh all of this in his luggage thinking that there will be no additionnal charge when come in Customs France ?
We had no visibility of when it could be possible. As i said earlier this proposition come in May, problems were showed to him in February.
How can he found time to do it for us when his shop is small and "turning with only 2 guys" ?
I never say that Jason is an unexperienced tuner or something but you must understand that from the beginning there is a problem. There is no good parts installed and some are not usable (cylinder head for example).
We had confident in him, but since we found problems and communication began to be terrible. its coming really difficult to keep this level of confident in him.
My main problem is that i should be glad about his refund proposition or i should say imposed to us, because engine didn't have problems IF we were running it, services, quality and some parts of we paid seems to be just money that we waste just to have it on the quotation.
So we should don't check into the engine to confirmed that all we paid for is in it, isn't it ?
It's just common sense that we had and confirmed that this engine was not what we paid for.
Just a few years ago, my were car running a turbo kit Mase. I never had a problem with. Steve (Mase) coming to France and finishing the custom map. I'm running it during 2 years. Then I changed my project, to switch TTS SC because I couldn't go on all European circuits due to noise restriction. I'm rolled with stock engine and FI during 65000kms. Then in 2013, I wanted a new project with a new engine (F22 doesn't exist in Europe). And now we're here.
Jason propose to take the airplane and correct his mistake. Coming with new short block sleeved, new cylinder head, new parts. Puttinh all of this in his luggage thinking that there will be no additionnal charge when come in Customs France ?
We had no visibility of when it could be possible. As i said earlier this proposition come in May, problems were showed to him in February.
How can he found time to do it for us when his shop is small and "turning with only 2 guys" ?
I never say that Jason is an unexperienced tuner or something but you must understand that from the beginning there is a problem. There is no good parts installed and some are not usable (cylinder head for example).
We had confident in him, but since we found problems and communication began to be terrible. its coming really difficult to keep this level of confident in him.
My main problem is that i should be glad about his refund proposition or i should say imposed to us, because engine didn't have problems IF we were running it, services, quality and some parts of we paid seems to be just money that we waste just to have it on the quotation.
So we should don't check into the engine to confirmed that all we paid for is in it, isn't it ?
It's just common sense that we had and confirmed that this engine was not what we paid for.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Possibly you have read my posts but briefly. ...I bought Fernando 's(Kings Performance ) built engine out of his race car that he was parting out.I was told it was good and had only done 1000 miles from being built.I took his word for it and the price was half a new built motor.Straight away I came across problems....stripped threads and broken cam carriers,amongst other things.
I looked after the motor by spraying wd40 into the bores and turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank every 2 weeks.Once my tuner put a startup tune on it he decided to drop the oil before putting it onto the Dyno. The oil/filter/sump plug were covered in metal filings.He decided not to tune it and stripped the top off,there was very bad det damage to the pistons plus the bores were badly scored.
Fernando offered to have the engine back for a full rebuild and paid all the expenses including the shipping.This he did and told me it was a new block,piston rings and big ends and main bearings.I asked what pistons he had used as replacements,he said he had re used the original (det damaged)ones.
Once I had a startup tune on the car it started up quite noisy,my tuner diagnosed piston slap.I passed this info onto Fernando,he said all his engines are built like that.I then proceed to run the engine in with a running in tune on the ecu.I then took the car back to my tuner for the full power tune.Thats when the problems started to show op,the piston slap was so loud it sounded like it would blow up on the Dyno. The blow by was blowing the dipstick out and ejecting engine oil from various breathers.Clearly this wasn't right,I told Fernando and he wanted videos and leak down test.
At this point I had fitted the engine,then I had paid my tuner to remove the engine and do a strip down inspection.I sourced a replacement stock engine,paid my tuner to install it and tune it.I then removed the stock engine,fitted the rebuilt engine,put it on a lowloader for a safe road tune.He was asking me to throw more money at the engine just to prove what my tuner had told him.At this point I began to realise dealing with him was a lost cause because A,All the issues were purely down to myself and my tuner being incompetent.B,he completely failed to see my point of view regarding how much money had been spent on putting his original (1000 mile old)engine right,Castle far as he was concerned it was everybody else's fault except the real person.....his engine builder.
I could neither trust him or his engine builder to build a lawn mower never mind a 1000 hp engine.So I've decided to buy all the internal components and get somebody I can trust to build it for me.
I looked after the motor by spraying wd40 into the bores and turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank every 2 weeks.Once my tuner put a startup tune on it he decided to drop the oil before putting it onto the Dyno. The oil/filter/sump plug were covered in metal filings.He decided not to tune it and stripped the top off,there was very bad det damage to the pistons plus the bores were badly scored.
Fernando offered to have the engine back for a full rebuild and paid all the expenses including the shipping.This he did and told me it was a new block,piston rings and big ends and main bearings.I asked what pistons he had used as replacements,he said he had re used the original (det damaged)ones.
Once I had a startup tune on the car it started up quite noisy,my tuner diagnosed piston slap.I passed this info onto Fernando,he said all his engines are built like that.I then proceed to run the engine in with a running in tune on the ecu.I then took the car back to my tuner for the full power tune.Thats when the problems started to show op,the piston slap was so loud it sounded like it would blow up on the Dyno. The blow by was blowing the dipstick out and ejecting engine oil from various breathers.Clearly this wasn't right,I told Fernando and he wanted videos and leak down test.
At this point I had fitted the engine,then I had paid my tuner to remove the engine and do a strip down inspection.I sourced a replacement stock engine,paid my tuner to install it and tune it.I then removed the stock engine,fitted the rebuilt engine,put it on a lowloader for a safe road tune.He was asking me to throw more money at the engine just to prove what my tuner had told him.At this point I began to realise dealing with him was a lost cause because A,All the issues were purely down to myself and my tuner being incompetent.B,he completely failed to see my point of view regarding how much money had been spent on putting his original (1000 mile old)engine right,Castle far as he was concerned it was everybody else's fault except the real person.....his engine builder.
I could neither trust him or his engine builder to build a lawn mower never mind a 1000 hp engine.So I've decided to buy all the internal components and get somebody I can trust to build it for me.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: France
Possibly you have read my posts but briefly. ...I bought Fernando 's(Kings Performance ) built engine out of his race car that he was parting out.I was told it was good and had only done 1000 miles from being built.I took his word for it and the price was half a new built motor.Straight away I came across problems....stripped threads and broken cam carriers,amongst other things.
I looked after the motor by spraying wd40 into the bores and turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank every 2 weeks.Once my tuner put a startup tune on it he decided to drop the oil before putting it onto the Dyno. The oil/filter/sump plug were covered in metal filings.He decided not to tune it and stripped the top off,there was very bad det damage to the pistons plus the bores were badly scored.
Fernando offered to have the engine back for a full rebuild and paid all the expenses including the shipping.This he did and told me it was a new block,piston rings and big ends and main bearings.I asked what pistons he had used as replacements,he said he had re used the original (det damaged)ones.
Once I had a startup tune on the car it started up quite noisy,my tuner diagnosed piston slap.I passed this info onto Fernando,he said all his engines are built like that.I then proceed to run the engine in with a running in tune on the ecu.I then took the car back to my tuner for the full power tune.Thats when the problems started to show op,the piston slap was so loud it sounded like it would blow up on the Dyno. The blow by was blowing the dipstick out and ejecting engine oil from various breathers.Clearly this wasn't right,I told Fernando and he wanted videos and leak down test.
At this point I had fitted the engine,then I had paid my tuner to remove the engine and do a strip down inspection.I sourced a replacement stock engine,paid my tuner to install it and tune it.I then removed the stock engine,fitted the rebuilt engine,put it on a lowloader for a safe road tune.He was asking me to throw more money at the engine just to prove what my tuner had told him.At this point I began to realise dealing with him was a lost cause because A,All the issues were purely down to myself and my tuner being incompetent.B,he completely failed to see my point of view regarding how much money had been spent on putting his original (1000 mile old)engine right,Castle far as he was concerned it was everybody else's fault except the real person.....his engine builder.
I could neither trust him or his engine builder to build a lawn mower never mind a 1000 hp engine.So I've decided to buy all the internal components and get somebody I can trust to build it for me.
I looked after the motor by spraying wd40 into the bores and turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank every 2 weeks.Once my tuner put a startup tune on it he decided to drop the oil before putting it onto the Dyno. The oil/filter/sump plug were covered in metal filings.He decided not to tune it and stripped the top off,there was very bad det damage to the pistons plus the bores were badly scored.
Fernando offered to have the engine back for a full rebuild and paid all the expenses including the shipping.This he did and told me it was a new block,piston rings and big ends and main bearings.I asked what pistons he had used as replacements,he said he had re used the original (det damaged)ones.
Once I had a startup tune on the car it started up quite noisy,my tuner diagnosed piston slap.I passed this info onto Fernando,he said all his engines are built like that.I then proceed to run the engine in with a running in tune on the ecu.I then took the car back to my tuner for the full power tune.Thats when the problems started to show op,the piston slap was so loud it sounded like it would blow up on the Dyno. The blow by was blowing the dipstick out and ejecting engine oil from various breathers.Clearly this wasn't right,I told Fernando and he wanted videos and leak down test.
At this point I had fitted the engine,then I had paid my tuner to remove the engine and do a strip down inspection.I sourced a replacement stock engine,paid my tuner to install it and tune it.I then removed the stock engine,fitted the rebuilt engine,put it on a lowloader for a safe road tune.He was asking me to throw more money at the engine just to prove what my tuner had told him.At this point I began to realise dealing with him was a lost cause because A,All the issues were purely down to myself and my tuner being incompetent.B,he completely failed to see my point of view regarding how much money had been spent on putting his original (1000 mile old)engine right,Castle far as he was concerned it was everybody else's fault except the real person.....his engine builder.
I could neither trust him or his engine builder to build a lawn mower never mind a 1000 hp engine.So I've decided to buy all the internal components and get somebody I can trust to build it for me.
I was scared when i saw firsts problems and then internals...
Franckly, i'm thinking that if i may run this engine and blew it right away. Does CNC could act like King Performance does for you ?
Really sad situation for you as well...
What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,274
Likes: 5
From: Midwest
Originally Posted by -T0mS2k-
Sounds similar to us... Main difference is that i don't put the engine into my car so didn't turn on and use it as well... I was scared when i saw firsts problems and then internals... Franckly, i'm thinking that if i may run this engine and blew it right away. Does CNC could act like King Motorsport does for you ? <img src=/IMG_2865.GIF' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?
' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by -T0mS2k-
Sounds similar to us... Main difference is that i don't put the engine into my car so didn't turn on and use it as well... I was scared when i saw firsts problems and then internals... Franckly, i'm thinking that if i may run this engine and blew it right away. Does CNC could act like King Motorsport does for you ? <img src=/IMG_2865.GIF' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?
' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?No I didn't get a satisfactory conclusion,that's the reason I keep posting up to warn others what they can expect if they deal with this company and a anything goes wrong.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: France
Originally Posted by -T0mS2k-
Sounds similar to us... Main difference is that i don't put the engine into my car so didn't turn on and use it as well... I was scared when i saw firsts problems and then internals... Franckly, i'm thinking that if i may run this engine and blew it right away. Does CNC could act like King Motorsport does for you ? <img src=/IMG_2865.GIF' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?
' />' /> Really sad situation for you as well... What was the end of this story ? Do you get a refund ?