Honda e
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Honda has announced the new Jazz will be hybrid-only for the EU (iMMD system) and is 'inspired by the e' in a move upmarket to justify the higher price. And to attract a less-decrepit audience.
There was a rumour they are moving to a more 'boutique' brand in EU, in order to survive.
There was a rumour they are moving to a more 'boutique' brand in EU, in order to survive.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
i really disliked the old Jizz, it was not at all nice to drive but i'm sure very cheap to run on a pension and all that.. for its segment.. with pushbike tyres n stuff
the newer one was so much better imo, even the boggo model Honda leant me was capable with a decent motor. i should just get the dorris one.
a hybrid seems a baaad idea. double the complexity with all the drawbacks that entails. its a stop gap.. either stay petrol or go sun juice... they could have made something like the Mini E out of it just to see the reaction.. that would be better than the hybdud
the newer one was so much better imo, even the boggo model Honda leant me was capable with a decent motor. i should just get the dorris one.
a hybrid seems a baaad idea. double the complexity with all the drawbacks that entails. its a stop gap.. either stay petrol or go sun juice... they could have made something like the Mini E out of it just to see the reaction.. that would be better than the hybdud
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
IME the iMMD system (like HSD) is really a new type of CVT. Both companies pair it with an Atkinson-cycle port-injected engine with no turbos. So they are a very reliable system compared to the other hybrid crap, where they stick a strap-on 48V thing onto stuff with all that troublesome gubbins on them. I wouldn't touch most hybrids with your bargepole, but the aforementioned are OK for most.
The usual detachment of a (harsh four-banger) from the throttle which randomly screams its nuts off means some unpleasantness, however.
So I'd probably prefer a full-electric ultimately. But companies need to hedge their bets ATM.
ETA: at least the e is a bespoke plank and not a bodged FWD conversion like the MINeeeeeee. So whilst that doesn't solve all the known EV drawbacks, it ought to provide a decent design.
The usual detachment of a (harsh four-banger) from the throttle which randomly screams its nuts off means some unpleasantness, however.
So I'd probably prefer a full-electric ultimately. But companies need to hedge their bets ATM.
ETA: at least the e is a bespoke plank and not a bodged FWD conversion like the MINeeeeeee. So whilst that doesn't solve all the known EV drawbacks, it ought to provide a decent design.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 14,273
Likes: 2
From: Chester
Been a while since I was that side of the company but our hybrid engines had fewer problems than other types. Why? They are simpler than conventional petrol engines since they’re optimised for efficiency.
The batteries do their job and make up for the complexity you need on a conventional engine whilst giving you acceptable performance.
The batteries do their job and make up for the complexity you need on a conventional engine whilst giving you acceptable performance.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
I guess the jazz is quite a small package so the addition of a little motor and battery might be the best option. Dunno.
Regardless, the Outlander phev a buddy had did very well on short runs and might suit her indoors but i cant get interested. The e is a wing and a prayer for Honda but i like the thinking, everyone else is range obsessed and this is not...
Been using this https://www.zap-map.com/live/ to assess use but in recent weeks we have only been as far as Windsor.. England is a twat to drive any distance in...
my dirt bike has feg all range, my other one about 100 miles. Never notice tbh but fill ups are 5 mins so 30...
Maybe a lease is the clever way on this. I expect the tech will evolve very quickly indeed
Regardless, the Outlander phev a buddy had did very well on short runs and might suit her indoors but i cant get interested. The e is a wing and a prayer for Honda but i like the thinking, everyone else is range obsessed and this is not...
Been using this https://www.zap-map.com/live/ to assess use but in recent weeks we have only been as far as Windsor.. England is a twat to drive any distance in...
my dirt bike has feg all range, my other one about 100 miles. Never notice tbh but fill ups are 5 mins so 30...
Maybe a lease is the clever way on this. I expect the tech will evolve very quickly indeed
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Been a while since I was that side of the company but our hybrid engines had fewer problems than other types. Why? They are simpler than conventional petrol engines since they’re optimised for efficiency.
The batteries do their job and make up for the complexity you need on a conventional engine whilst giving you acceptable performance.
The batteries do their job and make up for the complexity you need on a conventional engine whilst giving you acceptable performance.
Bit like the VTEC failure myth - Toyota & Honda are aiming for 100% e-motor reliability (sod six sigma) and it turns out the batteries are a lot more durable than we had feared.
And running a large part of the time in Atkinson neans a low-stressed naturally-aspirated engine.
ETA: there are good reasons why >50% of Toyota's EU sales are hybrids.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
i thought the pius was a bit of a first jab exploration? which did 35mpg..
as a layman rather than an engineer i dont see how adding a motor, batterries and the ability to swap drive doesnt add complexity. i would not go near a hybrid because i dont see the point. a purely electric car can be simple in a way a hybrid cant to me.
its like comparing a vhs with a cd player.. too many moving bits
as a layman rather than an engineer i dont see how adding a motor, batterries and the ability to swap drive doesnt add complexity. i would not go near a hybrid because i dont see the point. a purely electric car can be simple in a way a hybrid cant to me.
its like comparing a vhs with a cd player.. too many moving bits
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
That's why Prius drivers are a PIA- you have to use them in a special way to get anywhere close to Diseasel MPG.
The later Toyotas have sufficient e-grunt to make sense; the RAV4 I drove would do 35mph round town and it was a while before the infernal combustion thing disturbed The King's Peace with its rumblings.
The massive advantage (aside from having do DCT to go wrong or to jerk) is that one can re-fuel them anywhere in a few minutes and they will go some distance before you need to repeat. For anyone living in a terraced house, an EV is not conveniently rechargeable.
Honda's iMMD system uses a direct mechanical drive for economy/efficiency when cruising, which is where HSD falls down a lot.
If it weren't for the Bureauprats, we'd not need all this nonsense and ICE cars would be far simpler and more reliable.
On a more selfish level, the sooner silent hybrids/EVs replace stinking and clattering Diseasels in urban traffic jams, the better. It's got to the point where I cannot abide the bloody things.
BTW - is the 320d now a three-pot? One I recently heard sounded like some sort of construction industry plant. Ultimate Driving my Arse!
The later Toyotas have sufficient e-grunt to make sense; the RAV4 I drove would do 35mph round town and it was a while before the infernal combustion thing disturbed The King's Peace with its rumblings.
The massive advantage (aside from having do DCT to go wrong or to jerk) is that one can re-fuel them anywhere in a few minutes and they will go some distance before you need to repeat. For anyone living in a terraced house, an EV is not conveniently rechargeable.
Honda's iMMD system uses a direct mechanical drive for economy/efficiency when cruising, which is where HSD falls down a lot.
If it weren't for the Bureauprats, we'd not need all this nonsense and ICE cars would be far simpler and more reliable.
On a more selfish level, the sooner silent hybrids/EVs replace stinking and clattering Diseasels in urban traffic jams, the better. It's got to the point where I cannot abide the bloody things.
BTW - is the 320d now a three-pot? One I recently heard sounded like some sort of construction industry plant. Ultimate Driving my Arse!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
funny you say that Nick as in the interests of info gathering around alternatives i noted that Kumkwats now come as 1.3 petrol or 1.5 dies-easy
the HRV is a 1.5 too
both weigh 48 metric tons. ok i made that up. ish
the HRV is a 1.5 too
both weigh 48 metric tons. ok i made that up. ish
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Yes - I suspect that future Hondas will all be either hybrids (iMMD or the NSX/Leg End complificated system) or EVs - as the diseasel dies with Swindon.
The other reason I am mildly e-nthusiastic is that the e and the Ian-Paice are two of the few modern cars I do not find repugnant to countenance. More clean-lined but difficult to refuel cars will come.
The other reason I am mildly e-nthusiastic is that the e and the Ian-Paice are two of the few modern cars I do not find repugnant to countenance. More clean-lined but difficult to refuel cars will come.