Honda e
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,152
Likes: 281
From: In the land of pies and pasties
My 'leccy & gas tariff altogether costs £65 a month. I'm heating/powering 1500sq ft, 4 bed det. I assume that if I'm charging an elecy car every few nights with a true real world 100 mile range, my tariff will go up maybe 25 - 30 quid a month, maybe more? Supposed to be approx £8 per full charge I've read.
That's the issue, not knowing how much you'll rely on the charging at home, how much to pay charging elsewhere (some places free, some not). Unknown costs so to speak.
It's a faff. I'm cool with paying 20 quid in V power fuel every 2-3 weeks in my s2k doing school runs and pottering. It won't change either in the long term. Overall an E car doesn't fit my profile, although it's designed for pottering. I potter, it's still not worth the cough up price. That is why, the showrooms aren't shifting them. Not just covid. It'll take a while for many to understand the E as it is purely a gadget. With a pretty face and different to the norm interior with, to be fair, maybe too many screens to distract. Nice though overall.
There's an enjoyment out of servicing petrol engines. Even the dirty diesels Ive had the misfortune of farting around with on the driveway for over 10 years, to keep em running right, has built my confidence on home servicing, and been a bit of a hobby. The last diesel I had even kept me busy, a 3.0 tdi A5 with dodgy swirl flaps, shoddy window regulators, bosch sensors going wrong. All fun to fix, and cheap.
I have a lot to do with this car to get it right. Maybe it's a waste of money, so are all hobbies.
I won't be taking up Crown Green Bowling any time soon
That's the issue, not knowing how much you'll rely on the charging at home, how much to pay charging elsewhere (some places free, some not). Unknown costs so to speak.
It's a faff. I'm cool with paying 20 quid in V power fuel every 2-3 weeks in my s2k doing school runs and pottering. It won't change either in the long term. Overall an E car doesn't fit my profile, although it's designed for pottering. I potter, it's still not worth the cough up price. That is why, the showrooms aren't shifting them. Not just covid. It'll take a while for many to understand the E as it is purely a gadget. With a pretty face and different to the norm interior with, to be fair, maybe too many screens to distract. Nice though overall.
There's an enjoyment out of servicing petrol engines. Even the dirty diesels Ive had the misfortune of farting around with on the driveway for over 10 years, to keep em running right, has built my confidence on home servicing, and been a bit of a hobby. The last diesel I had even kept me busy, a 3.0 tdi A5 with dodgy swirl flaps, shoddy window regulators, bosch sensors going wrong. All fun to fix, and cheap.
I have a lot to do with this car to get it right. Maybe it's a waste of money, so are all hobbies.
I won't be taking up Crown Green Bowling any time soon
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,504
Likes: 241
From: Sunny Norf*ck
Me 2000 sq ft approx £50/month space heating and HW via GSHP.
My last s2k I couldn't barely get in or out of, certainly not unless I was driving and had the steering wheel to grab. Cost £1500 pa to go nowhere doing maybe 1000 miles a year but at least didn't depreciate. I got fed up with looking after it keeping it to decent standard. The 'e' who knows but it costs **** all to run and starts promptly as well as introducing me to a new world of range anxiety - as if I didn't have enough to fret about with this COVID shit. 'A gadget with a pretty face' yep that's about right. Keeps me amused in my old age. It does gather a lot of dirt easily so Karcher jet wash and Meguires snow foam kit here I come. When I can be arsed.
Your estimate of cost of charging an EV is slightly over. So far 2p a mile is my cost, actual. I only charge it when the wind's blowing mind
p.s. free public chargers were mostly slow 3.2kWh and fast being phased out
My last s2k I couldn't barely get in or out of, certainly not unless I was driving and had the steering wheel to grab. Cost £1500 pa to go nowhere doing maybe 1000 miles a year but at least didn't depreciate. I got fed up with looking after it keeping it to decent standard. The 'e' who knows but it costs **** all to run and starts promptly as well as introducing me to a new world of range anxiety - as if I didn't have enough to fret about with this COVID shit. 'A gadget with a pretty face' yep that's about right. Keeps me amused in my old age. It does gather a lot of dirt easily so Karcher jet wash and Meguires snow foam kit here I come. When I can be arsed.
Your estimate of cost of charging an EV is slightly over. So far 2p a mile is my cost, actual. I only charge it when the wind's blowing mind
p.s. free public chargers were mostly slow 3.2kWh and fast being phased out
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
Nothing free in this life eh?
They are super cheap to run if you get it right as Rog has but expensive to acquire and bring range anxiety apparently
You see I have 2 S2000 and 2 bikes so they are my hobby, I resent getting under the Nissan to swap the oil and haven't done the plugs because the inlet mani needs to come off and is plastic and needs a new gasket ffs... So would prefer a hairdryer with brakes maint schedule
They are super cheap to run if you get it right as Rog has but expensive to acquire and bring range anxiety apparently
You see I have 2 S2000 and 2 bikes so they are my hobby, I resent getting under the Nissan to swap the oil and haven't done the plugs because the inlet mani needs to come off and is plastic and needs a new gasket ffs... So would prefer a hairdryer with brakes maint schedule
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
the decentralised storage of wind or tidal energy harvested overnight in peoples car batteries is surely a good thing. albeit needs some smart meters which seem beyond us.
home chargers i was talking about, typically 7kw for a reason and that is probably enough for all relevant use cases
not sure i would charge on the move more than a few times a year (i'm sure i wouldnt actually)
and to Nicks' point it doesnt suit commercial full stop but i think evs do suit the vast majority of traffic on our roads, they can be cheaply run, efficient and can be green. unlike petrol or diseasel which as a former regular cyclist i experienced far too much. if you have a sub 75 mile each way commute (95% of us?) then a 200 mile range car can do that and you can whack on clever charge when you get back, at 7kw it might need 8 or even 9 hrs but you need 7 sleep ffs so...
emerging tech is always pricey and always comes down in price, christ the geeks on here understand that more than most
home chargers i was talking about, typically 7kw for a reason and that is probably enough for all relevant use cases
not sure i would charge on the move more than a few times a year (i'm sure i wouldnt actually)
and to Nicks' point it doesnt suit commercial full stop but i think evs do suit the vast majority of traffic on our roads, they can be cheaply run, efficient and can be green. unlike petrol or diseasel which as a former regular cyclist i experienced far too much. if you have a sub 75 mile each way commute (95% of us?) then a 200 mile range car can do that and you can whack on clever charge when you get back, at 7kw it might need 8 or even 9 hrs but you need 7 sleep ffs so...
emerging tech is always pricey and always comes down in price, christ the geeks on here understand that more than most
Windmills are not electrically efficient (solar panels more so) and you get the grid instabilities from their variable speeds. Charging/discharging batteries also creates inefficiencies.
Ironically, in 'Wind Week' we have been stuck in an anticyclone so barely 2% has come from wind!
Demands mean that battery packs would be drained in a few hours.
So you need 100% fossil/nuclear back up.
So effectively building 200% is a waste of money.
Given the amount of energy required for the steel/concrete in a windmill, they have a net negative EROI.
You have to be extremely disnumerate (or a complete daydream-believer) in order to think they are good for anything other than killing bats and birds. Unfortunately, so many people in the green brigade and their press fall into those categories - as well as being dyslexic.
Remember, they also want to ban gas central heading, so all of those houses would need at least a 200A supply for their BEVs & A/GSHPs.
Then again, destroying the economy seems to be the main motivation.
Fortunately, research into equally ridiculous HEVs has given us excellent gas tanks. You'd be better off running all the cars & trucks on CNG/LPG in order to cut urban pollution dramatically. Just be careful re-filling in a closed garage.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 23,296
Likes: 830
From: Nottingham
It's always about balance I think
it makes perfect sense to harvest a bit of solar.. wind i can't argue the case either way but it feels like free energy once the investment is made. In a clever world every house would have a power wall which would reduce the lack of smooth generation but yeah, nuke is always gonna be needed to assist in smoothing in a place like the UK in winter
Banning GCH is a pipe dream. Arf.
If you cut out the core of bad emissions, namely traffic, you will end up with cleaner air. I think that accounts for about 30% of shit we pump into the air we then breath
that is a massive
Then if we all go passivhaus happy days
our utilities cost about £150 a month combined
it makes perfect sense to harvest a bit of solar.. wind i can't argue the case either way but it feels like free energy once the investment is made. In a clever world every house would have a power wall which would reduce the lack of smooth generation but yeah, nuke is always gonna be needed to assist in smoothing in a place like the UK in winter
Banning GCH is a pipe dream. Arf.
If you cut out the core of bad emissions, namely traffic, you will end up with cleaner air. I think that accounts for about 30% of shit we pump into the air we then breath
that is a massive
Then if we all go passivhaus happy days
our utilities cost about £150 a month combined
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Well, if we can efficiently recycle solar panels after ~20 years when they're knackered, then fine. But the EROI is pretty marginal.
Windmills not only require the destruction of vast acreages of forest (the CO2-believers ignore that) but it's definitely not free - they require constant maintenance and are knackered after 15-20 years and are impossible to recycle. The clue is, wind power was abandoned as soon as Boulton & Watt made a semi-inefficient steam engine. It really isn't free and the original investment would be better in a nice safe, compact and eco-friendly nuclear plant. Windmills have their place as water pumps or in remote off-grid areas, but as a general source of power the idea is completely nonsensical.
Air pollution from traffic is largely overstated - aside from the excess NOx caused by this silly CO2 fixation. It still leaves ~70% from industry or the real problems in towns, central heating systems. Trucks/buses running on gas emit minimal particulates and NOx. The engines are quieter and longer-lived, too.
I don't like Passivhaus; indoor air can end up far more polluted than the great outdoors. See the silly covid restrictions. And MHR systems are noisy.
Windmills not only require the destruction of vast acreages of forest (the CO2-believers ignore that) but it's definitely not free - they require constant maintenance and are knackered after 15-20 years and are impossible to recycle. The clue is, wind power was abandoned as soon as Boulton & Watt made a semi-inefficient steam engine. It really isn't free and the original investment would be better in a nice safe, compact and eco-friendly nuclear plant. Windmills have their place as water pumps or in remote off-grid areas, but as a general source of power the idea is completely nonsensical.
Air pollution from traffic is largely overstated - aside from the excess NOx caused by this silly CO2 fixation. It still leaves ~70% from industry or the real problems in towns, central heating systems. Trucks/buses running on gas emit minimal particulates and NOx. The engines are quieter and longer-lived, too.
I don't like Passivhaus; indoor air can end up far more polluted than the great outdoors. See the silly covid restrictions. And MHR systems are noisy.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,504
Likes: 241
From: Sunny Norf*ck
Excellent review of the situation (as the song goes). Probably some balanced combination of solar and - surely in 70 years since the Calder Hall design we have learned how to do it better - fission is needed. Fusion could be along in the next fifty years so that has to be end game. For my part short term I am waiting for Honda to upgrade with a 'c2g' (car to grid) capability. Then my 35.5 can augment my 9.6 hooked up to the solar PV/ house mains. At the moment we consume about 20-25 kWh/day only get a few kWh from solar at best on brief sunny days. Winter solstice soon. Assuming there will be blackouts, 'c2g' might come in very handy and I would be living the dream of EVs taking the load off the main electricity supply. All I want is to buy and store power when it is cheapest and use stored power to my benefit when the mains supply is expensive and/or not there. A bigger house battery than our summer months' consumption / PV capacity doesn't make sense. The 'e' as reserve battery would be good.
Apart from what Nick says in the above post we have surely been lucky there are still enough coal and gas power station still standing to get us over the last couple of weeks - big anticyclone sitting over us and no wind to speak of. I am minded of one of my O level English Lit poems. He foresaw not only the lack of wind but also the parched Earth and global water shortage. Laudanum notwithstanding!
All in a hot and copper sky,
The bloody Sun, at noon,
Right up above the mast did stand,
No bigger than the Moon.
Day after day, day after day,
We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.
Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
Apart from what Nick says in the above post we have surely been lucky there are still enough coal and gas power station still standing to get us over the last couple of weeks - big anticyclone sitting over us and no wind to speak of. I am minded of one of my O level English Lit poems. He foresaw not only the lack of wind but also the parched Earth and global water shortage. Laudanum notwithstanding!
All in a hot and copper sky,
The bloody Sun, at noon,
Right up above the mast did stand,
No bigger than the Moon.
Day after day, day after day,
We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.
Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
Actually, that's a very good point; the e's three-pin 240Vac port on the dash makes Unclefester's new double USB port look a bit weedy. As does the ~35 kWh battery at the other end of it.
Given that these mass-delusions aren't going away any time, blackouts are a high probability. You'd have to be careful with the draw (13A for the house, not sure about the e), but plugging the house into the car might just be an expedient way to keep the lights on/fridge running. Remember to isolate the 100A un-supply first!
Given that these mass-delusions aren't going away any time, blackouts are a high probability. You'd have to be careful with the draw (13A for the house, not sure about the e), but plugging the house into the car might just be an expedient way to keep the lights on/fridge running. Remember to isolate the 100A un-supply first!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,504
Likes: 241
From: Sunny Norf*ck
Good idea @Nick Graves . Fridge is a slight mystery as to max current but I know my heat pump pulls 13A when the compressor runs. So a 5A rated lead would be smoking!
And I can store charge in the 'e' any time the mains electricity supply is up and running, subject to spare capacity in the battery. I suppose I can run my CTEK conditioner and keep the 45AH 12v battery of the 'e' charged too. I suppose I could pop out in the 'e' to a public charge point and pick up a few tens of kWh for a £fiver to take back home.
Better be careful I don't disappear up my own arsie in all of this.
And I can store charge in the 'e' any time the mains electricity supply is up and running, subject to spare capacity in the battery. I suppose I can run my CTEK conditioner and keep the 45AH 12v battery of the 'e' charged too. I suppose I could pop out in the 'e' to a public charge point and pick up a few tens of kWh for a £fiver to take back home.
Better be careful I don't disappear up my own arsie in all of this.