Speedventures classing input thread - #72
. Can't wait to see you up in Spokane Jerry!
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Los Angeles
I'm gonna post a complete shibang pretty soon, so any more input should be provided now. If you're all getting weary, that's fine. I'm going to come up with a final thing soon. We can then make some last minute changes to it and call it quits for now.
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Toronto, Canada
Well, whatever I guess. If you want to compete for and win the fastest of the slowest award I not gonna stop you. By allowing people who have experience to place in a novice group that's what it is, the short bus.
Please take it with a bit of humour cause it's supposed to be humourous.
Fred in his supercharged s2000 runs 30s/lap slower than dave or wil even after attending 25 events. Fred gets 1st prize because he's disabled or slow to develop or otherwise too handicapped to step up and lose like the rest of us. At least those who compete in the Special Olympics have a valid reason to complete, they don't qualify for the other Olympics. What's the excuse for those who are the oldest kids in novice class?
Seems kinda dumb that I can drive slower and win first prize don't you think? Why don't I just add 7s to each of my laps and claim victory?
My chances of placing any better than midpack are about nil but I at least I've got the gonads to say "hey I suck, you are faster than I am" and not try to salvage some false victory where none exists. I don't deserve to win, I'm not good enough. Everyone of the competitors except for a handful are in the same boat. We battle each other for 6th, 7th or 8th and have a hell of a good time doing it. The bragging rights are just the same among us as they are for those who are battling for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
There is more honour in competing openly and coming 8th than in sucking and coming 1st because you "are special". Like I said, make everyone a winner and hand out door prizes. You suck, get used to it, I have.
Please take it with a bit of humour cause it's supposed to be humourous.
Fred in his supercharged s2000 runs 30s/lap slower than dave or wil even after attending 25 events. Fred gets 1st prize because he's disabled or slow to develop or otherwise too handicapped to step up and lose like the rest of us. At least those who compete in the Special Olympics have a valid reason to complete, they don't qualify for the other Olympics. What's the excuse for those who are the oldest kids in novice class?
Seems kinda dumb that I can drive slower and win first prize don't you think? Why don't I just add 7s to each of my laps and claim victory?
My chances of placing any better than midpack are about nil but I at least I've got the gonads to say "hey I suck, you are faster than I am" and not try to salvage some false victory where none exists. I don't deserve to win, I'm not good enough. Everyone of the competitors except for a handful are in the same boat. We battle each other for 6th, 7th or 8th and have a hell of a good time doing it. The bragging rights are just the same among us as they are for those who are battling for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
There is more honour in competing openly and coming 8th than in sucking and coming 1st because you "are special". Like I said, make everyone a winner and hand out door prizes. You suck, get used to it, I have.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: San Diego
Well there is a slight performance increase from rollover protection - not so much in chassis stiffening as in reduction of the "cajones factor" needed to circumnavigate the racetrack expediently. A wing helps a lot with that, but isn't enough to keep visions of the helmet luge or freestyle tirewall faceplant events from my mind. A rollcage would. Oh, but until somebody figures out how to make an SCCA legal cage or bar I won't run one.
Don't like the idea of negative points, but am fine with the allowance of weight removal (interior, etc.) to compensate for rollover protection weight addition. Maybe after I roll I'll change my mind.
Fire extinguisher requirement I like. Suits maybe - I don't feel fast enough yet to be worthy of a driving suit, gloves, or shoes. Maybe after I catch on fire once I'll change my mind.
Perhaps instead of $$$ for winning a class/event, SV gives out gloves, shoes, suits, helmets, Bitterbars, etc.? Maybe big stuff as a year-end thing, but a good way to promote safety. Year-end jacket embroidered with "2003 Champion - SpeedVentures S2000 Mod". In autocross as in golf, the jacket is a symbol of championship.
Don't understand the animosity towards invention and creation in modding. We all have a different budget and toolset to work with to make our cars go-fast. If I wasn't so strapped for cash I'd be running around on Koni 28's with Volks or some other Big Ass Pretty Wheels, and the car would be just as fast, if not faster. Of course with aero mods in addition to the other stuff the potential is there to be really really fast but the points would be adjusted into unlimited land before that happened. F&R aero mods are already worth more points than R-tires, no way the performance advantage is the same.
If I had an extra $10k and a big blue tarp this is how I'd set my car up for mod:
Front wing: 20
Active rear wing: 40
Gigantic Shaved Victoracers: 50
on Big Ass Pretty Wheels: 20 ($2500+)
6 pt. cage: -40 ($1500+)
Super/Turbocharger: 100 ($6k+)
or Coilovers/CAI/VAFC: 105 ($5k+)
Completely gutted interior
Buh-bye!
Don't like the idea of negative points, but am fine with the allowance of weight removal (interior, etc.) to compensate for rollover protection weight addition. Maybe after I roll I'll change my mind.
Fire extinguisher requirement I like. Suits maybe - I don't feel fast enough yet to be worthy of a driving suit, gloves, or shoes. Maybe after I catch on fire once I'll change my mind.
Perhaps instead of $$$ for winning a class/event, SV gives out gloves, shoes, suits, helmets, Bitterbars, etc.? Maybe big stuff as a year-end thing, but a good way to promote safety. Year-end jacket embroidered with "2003 Champion - SpeedVentures S2000 Mod". In autocross as in golf, the jacket is a symbol of championship.
Don't understand the animosity towards invention and creation in modding. We all have a different budget and toolset to work with to make our cars go-fast. If I wasn't so strapped for cash I'd be running around on Koni 28's with Volks or some other Big Ass Pretty Wheels, and the car would be just as fast, if not faster. Of course with aero mods in addition to the other stuff the potential is there to be really really fast but the points would be adjusted into unlimited land before that happened. F&R aero mods are already worth more points than R-tires, no way the performance advantage is the same.
If I had an extra $10k and a big blue tarp this is how I'd set my car up for mod:
Front wing: 20
Active rear wing: 40
Gigantic Shaved Victoracers: 50
on Big Ass Pretty Wheels: 20 ($2500+)
6 pt. cage: -40 ($1500+)
Super/Turbocharger: 100 ($6k+)
or Coilovers/CAI/VAFC: 105 ($5k+)
Completely gutted interior
Buh-bye!
in MOD. 
takes one
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 418
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From: Los Angeles
cthree,
You're right. I guess was just trying to please people (like Keith) when I shouldn't have been. In F1 the most exciting part of the race is often for 8th place or something and, you're right again, not everyone can win, so why would we let people with experience who aren't very fast run in novice?
So, how many SV events should we give them? 6 seems to be the number people are bandying about, but that's 12 SV race days and some events are just 1 day. So how about 10 actual SV days?
dt
You're right. I guess was just trying to please people (like Keith) when I shouldn't have been. In F1 the most exciting part of the race is often for 8th place or something and, you're right again, not everyone can win, so why would we let people with experience who aren't very fast run in novice?
So, how many SV events should we give them? 6 seems to be the number people are bandying about, but that's 12 SV race days and some events are just 1 day. So how about 10 actual SV days?
dt
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 418
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From: Los Angeles
Re: negative pts. for safety and weight reduction stuff:
The main thing I'm wondering is what to do about weight reduction. Should we strictly limit what people can remove from their cars? Does the AC have to be in? The airbag? What if someone wants to put on a different steering wheel and it's lighter. Should people be allowed to gut the interior?
I'm in favor of having simple system as follows:
- Any stock plastic necessary for rollbar installation can be removed provided it's for an aftermarket rollbar deemed to be safer than stock and not a sillouette.
- If it's a cage, all plastic, panels, etc. necessary for installation can be removed.
- Aftermarket rollbar or cage gets -10 pts as incentive for safety and potential for adding of weight.
- Spare tire, jack, tools, can be removed.
- Any interior panels, windows, etc. etc. of any kind removed are a fixed point penalty. This includes removal of rollbar cover plastic etc. if stock rollbars are still in place. That way we don't have to go around assessing the weight reduction for each individual car. If someone removes anything for purposes of reducing weight (if they do it to put in a new fancy solid wood interior or big ass speakers, that's fine), I think the penalty should be 15 pts. Regardless of whether they remove 200lbs or 10lbs. The idea of weighing each part seems ridiculous at this stage.
- if the steering wheel or pedals, shift knob or anything like that is replaced that's fine. We don't need to weigh the Sparco wheel vs. the stock airbag-filled wheel. Any steering wheel allowed without penalty.
thoughts?
We're almost done!
The main thing I'm wondering is what to do about weight reduction. Should we strictly limit what people can remove from their cars? Does the AC have to be in? The airbag? What if someone wants to put on a different steering wheel and it's lighter. Should people be allowed to gut the interior?
I'm in favor of having simple system as follows:
- Any stock plastic necessary for rollbar installation can be removed provided it's for an aftermarket rollbar deemed to be safer than stock and not a sillouette.
- If it's a cage, all plastic, panels, etc. necessary for installation can be removed.
- Aftermarket rollbar or cage gets -10 pts as incentive for safety and potential for adding of weight.
- Spare tire, jack, tools, can be removed.
- Any interior panels, windows, etc. etc. of any kind removed are a fixed point penalty. This includes removal of rollbar cover plastic etc. if stock rollbars are still in place. That way we don't have to go around assessing the weight reduction for each individual car. If someone removes anything for purposes of reducing weight (if they do it to put in a new fancy solid wood interior or big ass speakers, that's fine), I think the penalty should be 15 pts. Regardless of whether they remove 200lbs or 10lbs. The idea of weighing each part seems ridiculous at this stage.
- if the steering wheel or pedals, shift knob or anything like that is replaced that's fine. We don't need to weigh the Sparco wheel vs. the stock airbag-filled wheel. Any steering wheel allowed without penalty.
thoughts?
We're almost done!
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Santa Cruz, CA
Hmmm What about race seats? When combined with a proper rollbar and harness they should count as safety equipment. However, There is a substantial weight savings that's typically provided by a new seat.