I think jason has the best approach. 90pts is way too much for coilovers unless you want mod to be a stock suspension class.

Leave the pts alone and just outlaw the combo.

 

[outsider looking in mode on]
I really like the sound of just banning the combo. Then you save a LOT of headaches. Also, you don't have to jack up the points so much on hoosiers
[outsider looking in signing off]

 

That's insane for coilovers.

coilovers should be 50, not 90

more points for tires if you're not gonna run a spec tire, and less points for other insignificant mods.

 

Let's see if we can vote on one thing at a time, starting with the points ratings for coilovers and Hoosiers. I think coilovers should be fewer points than Hoosiers since they cost much less. I think it's important to factor in cost. In the name of making the series more "spec"-like I would prefer that we ban Hoosiers all-together, but that would make an autocrosser's car uncompetitive and they need something to even the field since they can't feasibly put coilovers on and still autocross.

So the first thing to decide is whether we're ok with Hoosiers being more pts. than coilovers (a la Bitterman/slick rick) or whether we shouldn't factor in cost (a la Saini) and make them the same. (It's nice to be able to write your own ballots!). The Bitterman proposition is endorsed, btw, by the Sierra Club AND the Sahara Club.

VOTES:


Second point: I think banning the Hoosier/coilover combo (SAINI) is a good idea since we wouldn't have to f-up the points in a totally ridiculous way (such as the way I proposed earlier) and we can deal with the points on a more reasonable basis (taking into account lap-time advantage and cost). This SAINI resolution appears to be supported by all parties who have weighed in (saini, damcgee, krazik, bitterman, rlaifatt).

VOTES:


The final points-related issue is whether to leave the points as they are (endorsed by Bitterman, Sierra Club, Sahara Club, krazik, hayashi), with the exception perhaps of upping the points value of the wing. The reason we could up the points value of the wing is because nobody has one except for Rhoads and he's way under points. Since wings are cheap, i think it should go up very little, perhaps to 30 for now? The advantage of keeping the points the same otherwise is that people who are maxed out (krazik) don't have to take stuff off their car at this point in the season (krazik doesn't have a wing yet).

VOTES ON KEEPING PTS THE SAME:

VOTES ON UPPING WING TO 30:


Couple more things: We need to vote on the idea of having just 2 Pro classes and 3 Novice classes. Or 3 of each. The advantage to the former idea (endorsed by Bitterman, Sierra Club, Sahara Club (no I dont' get tired of old jokes)) is that we rarely see experienced drivers in STOCK, they're 99% beginners. For example, slick rick came out to his first event and beat our 2002 STOCK Class Champion (strike) by 2 seconds at Streets of Willow. The next event he was up in PRODUCTION since running STOCK with no competition was so boring. This move would enable us to further increase the prize money awarded to the Pro classes and stiffen the competition. If STOCK ended up getting really competitive somehow, we could always create a PRO-STOCK class; we've got the system in place to do so.

VOTES:

 

I'll go first... even though I have no idea what a Sahara Club is.

1.Hoosier/Coilovers same point value at 75

2.Ban combination(actually, allow the combination but don't allow ANYTHING else... in other words the combination automatically equals 200pt. <--- I really like this idea. I don't think that will be a threat for a fully prepped car on spec tires.

3.Keep points same on wing... since they are cheap, let them be. Maybe outlaw active wings, (sorry JZR) as they are so time consuming to build. (time=money) or assign more points to active wings. (maybe 40pt for an active wing?)

4.Three novice and Two pro classes.. definitely.

 

I inserted my votes:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by desert tortoise
[B]Let's see if we can vote on one thing at a time, starting with the points ratings for coilovers and Hoosiers.

 

1. Hoosiers = 100, coilovers = 75.

2. Hoosiers + coilovers = Unlimited.
In retrospect, there's already precedence for this, since we have the *combination* of shocks and springs worth more than their total individual points. So, this proposal is just saying that the *combination* of Hoosiers and coilovers is worth over 200 pts, even though their individual points total is 175.

3. Fixed wing = 25 (same as diff/ECU/final drive).
Active wing = 40 or more, and only allowed in Pro. Active wings are $$$, and require rare skill to operate while driving (see JZR's post about going sideways at 90 when he trimmed the wing wrong). Do we really want newbies fiddling with wing controls when they're still learning about the line?

4. 3 Novice, 2 Pro classes.

 

1. Hooisers 100pts Coilovers 75pts
2. Hooisers+Coilovers not allowed in mod
3. Fixed rear wing 20pts w/ size limits, Active wing 40pts and removed for 04.
4. I'd rather see 2 Novice, 2 Pro (we need a different name than pro, as pro seems a bit pompous). But I am fine w/ 3 novice groups,

-Ry

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by krazik
[B]1. Hooisers 100pts Coilovers 75pts
2. Hooisers+Coilovers not allowed in mod
3. Fixed rear wing 20pts w/ size limits, Active wing 40pts and removed for 04.
4. I'd rather see 2 Novice, 2 Pro (we need a different name than pro, as pro seems a bit pompous).

 

No unlimited is unlimited. I meant banned from MOD.