I haven't seen anything in Beig's posts to warrant this. True, he was a bit LOUD in his last post, but attacking him wasn't called for in the first place.

Most of the information here has been covered many times, Beig and my opinions included. However, some very good information has also come out of the thread. I for one am very interested in seeing what comes out of the bump steering issue!

If a post riles you, go get a drink of cold water before responding...let's not let personal feelings (esp. about old issues better left forgotten) drown out some very good community exchanges.

 

Jason,

Here's the reason I always end up "feuding" with you on these threads. It's not because I believe the S2k is perfect from the factory. I'm not a good enough driver to determine that. What I do believe is that the S2K in stock form, with stock tires and driven within reasonable limits on the street, is rarely going to be the root cause of an accident. Everyone who's had problems with the bump steer causing them to lose the rear end has had that happen on either a race track or autocross course. I also believe that in those cases the car has not been using stock rubber but has been upgraded to race tires which don't have the buffer that the stock tires do at the limit. Therefore, I believe a distinction is in order. If the car has a bump steer issue it manifests itself under a specific set of circumstances that are beyond what most people who aren't involved in track events or autocross will ever see. If you would simply qualify your statements with something like "at the limit....." I would be much more comfortable with your posts on this topic. Making blanket statements, especially on a thread that asks why this car gets wrecked so often, only fuels the fire for those people who don't want to admit that their driving mistake may have been the cause of their accident.

 

I think Bieg has been very open-minded and respectful in this thread, much more so in the past. This thread has been an enjoyable exchange of information so far and I'm sure it will stay that way. No one wants a repeat of past events, especially not Bieg himself. I don't think he came back to pick fights. In the end it is just a car, and one that we all like (or we wouldn't be here!)

So let's just all take a deep breath and enjoy our car in the way we want... After all, it is a free country that we are in the middle of fighting to keep that way.

 

Strike... read back over my posts (all of them) in this thread. I used 'The limit' repeatedly, and even talked about percentages. My argument is that some of the accidents we are discussing could have been avoided if the bump-steer were eliminated. Bump-steer happens over any bump, on the track or street, indiscriminately of what tires/shocks/swaybars are on the car. More directly, I am saying the problem exists in stock form and can be maginified by other changes.

I said it in my earlier posts... I am not trying to exonerate anyone who has wrecked the car. They did so by driving beyond their own skill, or by pushing the limits of that skill on the street. That accountability rests strictly on them... What I am saying is that inexperienced drivers can get into more trouble with bump-steer present.

In the end, the responsibility for anyone's actions is their own. I've pushed my car to the limit and beyond for extended periods on the road because I know the car and my own limits. Many people feel that is wrong, but that's not the issue here. My point is that with bump-steer, I am more likely to have an accident than if the bump-steer were not there. If you drive in the 60-90% range of the car, it will not be an issue.

But this isn't about you or me... it's about people that don't know the difference between 70% or 110%. Someone that thinks they are driving at 70% and accidentally cross over to 110% shouldn't have been trying to do so without training. But in the S2000, testing such limits can be more tricky than other cars. Boxsters for instance, would be more forgiving at the limit and allow more time for correction.

Which brings up another key point... with our car being $15-20k cheaper than the Boxster, we have allot of younger owners with more testosterone than sense. Young men generally tend to push the limit more than other demographic groups, so that is another key explanation for accidents. The real thing to remember is there is no one factor here... The number and cause of accidents is a complex statistical web. However one of the many factors involved is bump-steer. Some people fail to recognize this simple truth.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]Jason,

 

While the bump steer issue may only be really noticable on the track or when pushing hard on the street (ie, driving above 90%), an argument could be made that, especially for drivers inexperience on the S2000, bump steer could cause problems in the 70-90% range.

For instance, could going around a shallow wet curve under the speed limit become dangerous due to this bump steer issue? Knowing nothing of the technical issue, it seems to me that it could at the very least cause a driver to panic and jerk the wheel (even a little) which may lead to the rear spinning around.

That said, until a proper modifictation is released, what (if anything) can be done to dampen the effects? Would anything like tire pressure, tire size, different shocks, etc. work?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]I think Bieg has been very open-minded and respectful in this thread, much more so in the past.

 

Strike, FYI the first time I experienced bump-steer I was entering a freeway and it really surprised me. I was wasn't even remotely close to any limit and I wasn't on any race track. It was a normal freeway curved entrance ramp with rough pavement, which is also normal in Michigan. I didn't loose control but it sure got my attention in a hurry. I don't believe the exposure is as limited as you've suggested.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]

What exactly is YOUR problem?

You know nothing of that situation or my subsequent reinstatement (with apology) or MY SUBSEQUENT REQUEST that my name be removed from this Forum.

 

Cedric, how did you bring that old post back? That must have been posted like a long time ago.. regarding the articles being written by a guy in Hong Kong.

And, to asnwer your questions... Nope, I'm not the guy who wrote all the vehicle dynamics material. I do not live in Hong Kong. I am currently in Upstate NY. And, I have do have a regular driver's license.

Jimmy