SBIT

I opened this topic to learn from you (if someone knows) and to inform you also for a problem that caused me time and money.

Before 6 months I built an engine for my s2k. Here are the specs:
F20C (total km after the rebuild is 7km)
Mahle Pistons (12,5:1)
Carrillo Rods ProA lightweight
Ferrea Valves & Valves guides
Supertech Springs & Retainers
ARP Headstuds
ACL Race Bearings
OEM Headgasket
BC 0061 Stage2.
AEM 1052U
JS Header
70mm TB
70mm exhaust

In the first 2 months I was driving it up to 4K rpm (3K km). In those 2 months I changed 2 times thick oils (first time at 800 km and the second one in 3K km).After that point we change to eneos 0-50 and I started driving it normally with a safe map in AEM until we went to the dyno (there we finalized the program). We made 2 maps a) ‘soft’ with rev limit to 9K and b) more aggressive with rev limit 9,3K. In the dynojet the engine give us 277hp at 8.9K rpm. In the road the car comparing with a normal s2k was fantastic!!! We had an issue though why we are loosing power from 8.9 since we revving it up until to 9,3 but it would be the next research project. Previous week I notice a strange valve noise in the engine and I went straight to my mechanic. First of all we saw a broken roller in non vtec rocker. This broken roller damaged the Intake BC cam. Apart from this issue we notice also in the rest of the Intake cam but also in exhaust cam fatigue marks. We took out the cams together with the rollers in order to replace the rollers and to put again the OEM cams since I didn’t have any other choice at that time. When we where ready to install again the roller with the cams we saw some valves to not be in the correct level. The retainers started to fail.
The fatigue marks on the cams and the retainers failure in 3K km is very strange for us.
From what I am reading in the forum nothing like this ever happened. Ok for the Supertech retainers many people faced problems but not in 3K km.
Were the springs too hard for this setup? (when the project started I believed that this would be a bulletproof head).
Were the cams to soft or we have material failure?

Do you guys have any ideas what cause these problems??

Apart from this now I am searching to replace parts. First of all I am thinking to use Ferrea springs and retainers. What do you think?
For cams should I go for Inlinepro / Toda or should I stay to OEM.
My aim is not to see the maximum power. My aim is reliability in track conditions when the engine revs until 9,3.

During the weekend I will but some photos.

JayC07

Wouldn't it be best if you stuck with just 1 brand for all of your internals?

On BC's website they say to stick with their own retainers/springs/cams etc.

SBIT

The quality of BC's springs/retainers cannot compared with Ferrea or Toda lets say. 90% are using either supertech kit, ferrea or toda (more expensive). I am thinking that my only mistake is that for saving few euros with supertech i didn't use the Ferrea kit (since i bought valves and guides) and to have complete Ferrea head.

S2johnyK

In your case,I am going to try a lucky guess...
Your oil is too thick for the F20C.
https://www.s2ki.com/...-30-weight-oil/







In this topic there were pictures about the "way" that oil uses to "climb" to the head of your our engine.
If you search in BITOG about that oil you will see more details (viscosity/temperatures ect)
My opinion (I am not sure) is that the fatigue on the upper parts of your engine is because of insufficient lubricating.
Anyway, this is only my thought...
Pictures may help more.

Can you describe how the valve noise started?
I am interested as well to learn more from more experianced guys of this forum about the valve springs rate scenario.
I think it's highly possible the combo of insufficient lubricating on the valvetrain and wrong valve springs rate to be you answer to your initial problem.

Stay away from Toda cams.
OEM is a great way when you seek reliability.

SBIT

Johny hi!
about the noise. Is like something to be synchronized as you increase revs but low volume noice. When i realised it i thought that something stupid syhchronized in my seat. i stoped the car in order to seaech it and i understood that my valves didn't work properly. Without a reason my engine worked like a caterpilar. You already know the rest.
About the oil thing is the first thing that we check. The oil pump worked properly and the surface-color of the cams or springs had nothing to do with lack of oil.
After discussions the last hours we realised that the problem came mainly from the springs of supertech that i took(SPR-H1020D 100lbs) because they were too hard for my setup. The pressure on the rollers were too high and at the end one broke and created the issue in the cam. Normally it would be more logical to use maximum SPR-H1021D 95lbs. The rest fatigue marks on the cams seems that came again from the pressure of the springs. I beleive that BC's work on normal or 1st stage F20C. When the pressure increase BC's metal seems that cannot handle it.

Let's have some ideas from more experianced guys.

S2johnyK

First things first…
I' m glad that your wear marks don’t indicate insufficient lubrication.
Secondly, I insist against thick oil (>40 grade) on Honda engines, you can read others Honda owners reports about theirs experience from thick oils on BITOG.
Third, the hard spring scenario “fits” to our subject but how your mechanic justify the wear so shortly, you have very few klms.
I think there is the option to choose aftermarket rockets for this kind applications.
What valve spring rate other people use for revving beyond 9k rpm?

apme123

was the cam wheel bolt tightened to spec? if not that could cause loss of internal engine oil pressure.

chris_barry

Excessive valve clearance can cause this as the cam will be on a more aggressive part of its lift/close profile than it would be with tighter valve clearances. Did you use Honda or BC clearance recommendations, and were these measured between the roller/cam lobe or between the tip of valve/rocker adjuster?

SBIT

Concerning the springs normally for such project they are using max 90lbs springs. i will search it for the oil though in order to avoid any issue in the future. Many people use also oem ap2 valve springs and retainers to rev it above 9k (9,2-9,3k) without having problems. The fatigue marks in the cams seems to be a matter of material quality. It seems that the BC's can work with normal head or at least with logical springs but not with so hard springs. The mistake was that i never checked the rate of the springs. I saw the kit (springs & retainers) and i thought that this was the only kit for f20c.
The bolts were tightened according to specs and i was there to check it.
Since we used BC Cams we used their clearence between valve/rocker adjuster.