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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:13 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by raymo19,Sep 8 2006, 07:30 PM
Because it's the wrong ground at the wrong time. But he didn't really know that at the time did he?
If he doesn't know the ground, then why attack?


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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:17 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 8 2006, 07:13 PM
If he doesn't know the ground, then why attack?
That is the question of the hour.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:20 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 8 2006, 08:04 PM


I disagree. I think Lee's mind was made up before the battle even started. I think the past victories and being so far north was a bit intoxicating.

Remember, for the most part all of the victories that you mention were won using defensive tactics. This will be a far different battle for the Confederate troops. I would have thought that a clear thinking Lee would have recognized that.
Chancellorsville was won via maneuver, taking advantage of a weakness in an enemy's force disposition on the field, in this case, a very vulnerable Union flank. Take an audacious, fearless commander like Stonewall J, and loyal troops that will follow you anywhere, and you win with a flank attack.

How does Lee plan to win at Gettysburg day 2?

If Lee's mind was made up, why is he still confering with his field commanders, asking them what their thoughts were?
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:23 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 8 2006, 07:20 PM
If Lee's mind was made up, why is he still confering with his field commanders, asking them what their thoughts were?
Because I think there is always the dimension of doubt, the need to make sure that every knowable problem or trap is uncovered, every potential pitfall explored.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:26 PM
  #355  
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 8 2006, 06:42 PM
General Warren was Meade's Chief Engineer, sent, I think, to scope out the ground, and make recommendations to HQ as to his assessment as to whether fight at Gettysburg, or pull back troops to Pipe Creek. ....
Warren did recon at that Rocky Hill and saw a big hole in the defense. He called for someone to fill that hole. Vincent's brigade did the job....anchored on the south end by the 20th Maine. It's truly a remarkable story.....we'll soon get to Day 2
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Vitito,Sep 8 2006, 08:13 PM
If he doesn't know the ground, then why attack?
Still cavalry blind for the most part and he'd never been there before. Lee was in the same state of mind as Yamamoto (sp?) nearly a century later.

He needed to strike a decisive blow now or face the inevitable weight of superior arms and numbers.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 8 2006, 08:17 PM
That is the question of the hour.
He attacks, because he is convinced it will succeed. He knows of a vulnerability in the Union line, and plans to exploit it with maneuver.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by raymo19,Sep 8 2006, 07:31 PM
Still cavalry blind for the most part and he'd never been there before. Lee was in the same state of mind as Yamamoto (sp?) nearly a century later.

He needed to strike a decisive blow now or face the inevitable weight of superior arms and numbers.
I don't know. I think that Lee, much like Yamamoto, thought his army could do anything. And I think he thought that the northern army couldn't do anything.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ralper,Sep 8 2006, 08:35 PM
I don't know. I think that Lee, much like Yamamoto, thought his army could do anything. And I think he that the northern army couldn't do anything.
They were both in an almost unique position (Lee as major general before the war, Yamamoto having trained with the US Navy) to see the obstacle in front of them.

Perhaps this is a discussion better left to the conclusion of this book as well.

It's going to be a doozy.
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Old Sep 8, 2006 | 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raymo19,Sep 8 2006, 08:31 PM
Still cavalry blind for the most part and he'd never been there before. Lee was in the same state of mind as Yamamoto (sp?) nearly a century later.

He needed to strike a decisive blow now or face the inevitable weight of superior arms and numbers.


Interesting, and ironic analogy with Yamamoto.

Yamamoto: at Pearl Harbor, we all know the end results.
Yamamoto: at Midway, Incredible Victory for the U.S. NAVY (I'm a little biased here)

At Midway, though significantly outnumbered, a smaller U.S. Fleet sunk 4 Japanese carriers, and changed the tide of the war. Why? We were audacious, desperate, and also hungry to strike back hard at the Japanese for Pearl Harbor and such. Combine that with much luck, in that our planes found the Japanese fleet first, throw in some indecision on the part of the Japanese leadership, arm planes with torpedoes/bombs/torppedoes, and back again (keep them on the flight deck vice in the air) and we win.

At the end of day 1, which force, Union or Confederate, has the audacious reputation? Which force has the reputation for poor/indecisive leadership? Which force runs away from the battlefield? Which force has the leaders that "out general" the other?


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