first time in a ap2
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 7
From: Suffolk, VA
Originally Posted by SlowTeg' timestamp='1319836677' post='21110591
AUC is within 1%, assuming redline shifts, for both cars. Stock for stock, or bolted vs bolted on, it stays the same.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
A TP and tune yeields just as impressive numbers on a F20C. The only difference is that the F20C requires a full standalone to gain full benefits, whereas the DBW F22C's just need a flashpro.
I've spent plenty of time on the dyno and have multiple flashpro calibrations. Trust me. We've done the math.
This is not necessarily true. on the track, you're not necessarily always in the RPM range from one shift point to the next. There are many times where the time it will take you to shift would cause you to have a slower lap time than if you'd have stayed at a lower RPM range in a higher gear and just powered out of a turn.
So that extra 30whp can make a HUGE difference on track, even if its at an RPM that is lower than what it would be if you shifted at redline.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 7
From: Suffolk, VA
Originally Posted by ZDan' timestamp='1319893484' post='21111801
Actually, i think the whole "area under the power curve" isn't really what's important. Otherwise, a 120hp engine that spun to 20,000rpm would have an advantage, which it really doesn't. So feel free to ignore the squares/triangles in above post...
Important thing to note is that the aP1 is making more power than the AP2 immediately after upshifting, so though AP2 makes more power, it doesn't *always* make more power.
In the end, the stock AP2 is no quicker than the AP1. But it would be with a rev-limit bump up to 8500.
Important thing to note is that the aP1 is making more power than the AP2 immediately after upshifting, so though AP2 makes more power, it doesn't *always* make more power.
In the end, the stock AP2 is no quicker than the AP1. But it would be with a rev-limit bump up to 8500.
Your a dumbass bro, you are comparing 0-60 tims? the OLNY REASON THEY HAVE THE SAME 0-60 TIMS IS BECAUSE THE AP2 HAS TO SHIFT RIGHT BEFORE 60 MPH, after that the ap2 pulls ahead.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A ROLL RACE WITH AN AP2 VS AP1??? AP2 ALWAYS PULLS ON IT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AP2 TRAP HIGHER SPPEDS IN THE 1/4 MILE. What does trap speeds mean? faster car duh
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,223
Likes: 4
From: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by psychoazn' timestamp='1319838828' post='21110695
[quote name='SlowTeg' timestamp='1319836677' post='21110591']
I'm not surprised the F20C stock has a much more forgiving power curve, as the f22 really isn't tuned ideally from the factory. Like I mentioned before, it's quite impressive what a flashpro and testpipe will do on an ap2. Lowering the vtec point to ~4krpms and raising the rev limiter to 8500 however makes a world of difference, and the "penalty" for shifting early disappears with a much fatter midrange. I'd be curious to see how the f20c responds to just a testpipe and tune.
AUC is within 1%, assuming redline shifts, for both cars. Stock for stock, or bolted vs bolted on, it stays the same.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
A TP and tune yeields just as impressive numbers on a F20C. The only difference is that the F20C requires a full standalone to gain full benefits, whereas the DBW F22C's just need a flashpro.
I've spent plenty of time on the dyno and have multiple flashpro calibrations. Trust me. We've done the math.
This is not necessarily true. on the track, you're not necessarily always in the RPM range from one shift point to the next. There are many times where the time it will take you to shift would cause you to have a slower lap time than if you'd have stayed at a lower RPM range in a higher gear and just powered out of a turn.
So that extra 30whp can make a HUGE difference on track, even if its at an RPM that is lower than what it would be if you shifted at redline.
[/quote]
I can't think of any tracks that I've driven on where this is true. If you're that far out of VTEC, you're in the wrong gear. Your RPM WOT going around a turn at the limit of your tires grip at a given speed will be higher than RPMG WOT going straight at that same given speed due to scrub and slip.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 7
From: Suffolk, VA
Originally Posted by WhiteSSP' timestamp='1319926405' post='21112790
[quote name='psychoazn' timestamp='1319838828' post='21110695']
[quote name='SlowTeg' timestamp='1319836677' post='21110591']
I'm not surprised the F20C stock has a much more forgiving power curve, as the f22 really isn't tuned ideally from the factory. Like I mentioned before, it's quite impressive what a flashpro and testpipe will do on an ap2. Lowering the vtec point to ~4krpms and raising the rev limiter to 8500 however makes a world of difference, and the "penalty" for shifting early disappears with a much fatter midrange. I'd be curious to see how the f20c responds to just a testpipe and tune.
[quote name='SlowTeg' timestamp='1319836677' post='21110591']
AUC is within 1%, assuming redline shifts, for both cars. Stock for stock, or bolted vs bolted on, it stays the same.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
We did some heavy analysis on this in the R&C forum.
One thing to note is that the F20C has a more forgiving power curve, since you use both sides of the hump, whereas a F22C only gives you one side, and shifting early penalizes you a tiny bit more.
A TP and tune yeields just as impressive numbers on a F20C. The only difference is that the F20C requires a full standalone to gain full benefits, whereas the DBW F22C's just need a flashpro.
I've spent plenty of time on the dyno and have multiple flashpro calibrations. Trust me. We've done the math.
This is not necessarily true. on the track, you're not necessarily always in the RPM range from one shift point to the next. There are many times where the time it will take you to shift would cause you to have a slower lap time than if you'd have stayed at a lower RPM range in a higher gear and just powered out of a turn.
So that extra 30whp can make a HUGE difference on track, even if its at an RPM that is lower than what it would be if you shifted at redline.
[/quote]
I can't think of any tracks that I've driven on where this is true. If you're that far out of VTEC, you're in the wrong gear. Your RPM WOT going around a turn at the limit of your tires grip at a given speed will be higher than RPMG WOT going straight at that same given speed due to scrub and slip.
[/quote]
I've never been on a west coast track, so I can't say out there, but here at VIR and Summit point, in a race or even in traffic in a DE, that can easily become the case. You COULD shift to get into vtec, but then you shift back nearly immediately, costing you valuable time.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by woodburn' timestamp='1319923514' post='21112703
[quote name='ZDan' timestamp='1319893484' post='21111801']
Actually, i think the whole "area under the power curve" isn't really what's important. Otherwise, a 120hp engine that spun to 20,000rpm would have an advantage, which it really doesn't. So feel free to ignore the squares/triangles in above post...
Important thing to note is that the aP1 is making more power than the AP2 immediately after upshifting, so though AP2 makes more power, it doesn't *always* make more power.
In the end, the stock AP2 is no quicker than the AP1. But it would be with a rev-limit bump up to 8500.
Actually, i think the whole "area under the power curve" isn't really what's important. Otherwise, a 120hp engine that spun to 20,000rpm would have an advantage, which it really doesn't. So feel free to ignore the squares/triangles in above post...
Important thing to note is that the aP1 is making more power than the AP2 immediately after upshifting, so though AP2 makes more power, it doesn't *always* make more power.
In the end, the stock AP2 is no quicker than the AP1. But it would be with a rev-limit bump up to 8500.
Your a dumbass bro, you are comparing 0-60 tims? the OLNY REASON THEY HAVE THE SAME 0-60 TIMS IS BECAUSE THE AP2 HAS TO SHIFT RIGHT BEFORE 60 MPH, after that the ap2 pulls ahead.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A ROLL RACE WITH AN AP2 VS AP1??? AP2 ALWAYS PULLS ON IT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AP2 TRAP HIGHER SPPEDS IN THE 1/4 MILE. What does trap speeds mean? faster car duh
[/quote]
203 whp LOL that's an average bone stock ap2 and ap2 are hitting 13s very often I even know a Guy how ran 13.6...
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by starchland' timestamp='1319928333' post='21112847
There is no point arguing between ap1 and ap2 since the driver skill is going to be the biggest factor which will throw out any minute advantage of either car.
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Originally Posted by starchland' timestamp='1319928333' post='21112847
There is no point arguing between ap1 and ap2 since the driver skill is going to be the biggest factor which will throw out any minute advantage of either car.
Woodburn, with all due respect, some people just do not care about how many milliseconds faster your car is compared to theirs. If I wanted a fast car, I would have bought an Evolution. However, I wanted a car that felt like a true sports car and something that left me with a craving to drive. My AP2 does that very well... However, my AP1 just does that slightly better... even if it is slightly slower. It's all personal preference. Other members on the forum know their numbers far better than I do so I'll leave the technical stuff up to them.
Joined: Dec 2010
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