the Official "NA Tuning" thread
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From: Manchvegas, NH
are they still using a dynojet at TorqueFreaks ?
As I have nothing bad to say about TorqueFreaks as they are great guys . But you are still limited on tuning ability with the Dynojet . If the have access to a Dynapack, use it. The Dynojet will only give you the ability to tune WOT . To take full advantage of timing you need to do held power runs . Which can be done on a DynaPack .
Its not all about peak power, you need to get the most out of the Midrange and that will get you to your peak faster. 10 extra ft lbs at say 3000rpm will be better than a car with 2 extra hp at 8500rpm .
ex . here are 2 plots , Glens NA plot and a Comptech Supercharger plot , which would you rather have
I rather have the NA car . Expeicialy if I am tracking the car . The mid power is going to smoke the supercharged car on the track . The supercharger car will have a slight advantage in the straight . But It still has to play catch up as the NA car pulled out of every corner harder .
Just trying to get you guys to look at the bigger picture of should I say plot
This is just information , use it at will . Tuning is different for every car even with the same mods . I wish it was as easy as swapping maps with each other .
ex. a car that has been over fueled and has created carbon build up on pistons domes and in the combustion chamber will be more prone to detonation and cant take as much advantage to timing than one that has been properly fueled and has no build up on it .
As for the CA guys , Yes I do have a fuel advantage over here on the East coast with up to 94 at the pump . But we are no fans of Shell , so everything that we tune is usually Mobil 93 . We have even noticed difference in brands of fuel with different formulations will make different power.
FYI , for you East coasters, we will have the dyno at the Nor' Easter event .
As I have nothing bad to say about TorqueFreaks as they are great guys . But you are still limited on tuning ability with the Dynojet . If the have access to a Dynapack, use it. The Dynojet will only give you the ability to tune WOT . To take full advantage of timing you need to do held power runs . Which can be done on a DynaPack .
Its not all about peak power, you need to get the most out of the Midrange and that will get you to your peak faster. 10 extra ft lbs at say 3000rpm will be better than a car with 2 extra hp at 8500rpm .
ex . here are 2 plots , Glens NA plot and a Comptech Supercharger plot , which would you rather have
I rather have the NA car . Expeicialy if I am tracking the car . The mid power is going to smoke the supercharged car on the track . The supercharger car will have a slight advantage in the straight . But It still has to play catch up as the NA car pulled out of every corner harder .
Just trying to get you guys to look at the bigger picture of should I say plot
This is just information , use it at will . Tuning is different for every car even with the same mods . I wish it was as easy as swapping maps with each other .
ex. a car that has been over fueled and has created carbon build up on pistons domes and in the combustion chamber will be more prone to detonation and cant take as much advantage to timing than one that has been properly fueled and has no build up on it .
As for the CA guys , Yes I do have a fuel advantage over here on the East coast with up to 94 at the pump . But we are no fans of Shell , so everything that we tune is usually Mobil 93 . We have even noticed difference in brands of fuel with different formulations will make different power.
FYI , for you East coasters, we will have the dyno at the Nor' Easter event .
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From: PNW
Well I have never heard that, and, well, that sucks!!!
I would do exactly as you recommended, as I believe it's totally valid.
Problem is, I don't know of any reputable tuners around here besides for TF.
Perhaps I can have them do the full tune on their Dynojet, then take it to the best semi-local dynojet for touchups on my tune? How feasible is that?
Jason @ TF yesterday said they will also take it for a street tune after the dyno tune to get the best load conditions and settings, and that THAT would include mid-range and partial throttles as well... Your thoughts?
Thanks again for the extremely useful input.
Guhhhhh I don't feel like treking down to Church. Too far for me...
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From: Redondo Beach
Originally Posted by Twiztid,Apr 6 2006, 07:24 AM
ex . here are 2 plots , Glens NA plot and a Comptech Supercharger plot , which would you rather have
but I went 
when I saw this "NA" dyno. Never seen any NA F-series make this kind of power, except perhaps Karner's race-tuned F22 (which only revved to 8400 or so).Whose car is this, what are the mods, etc. Is it an F22 revving to 9K? How reliable has it been? Does it run regularly at the track (road course)?
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From: formerly versionJDM
Originally Posted by Twiztid,Apr 6 2006, 06:24 AM
are they still using a dynojet at TorqueFreaks ?
As I have nothing bad to say about TorqueFreaks as they are great guys . But you are still limited on tuning ability with the Dynojet . If the have access to a Dynapack, use it. The Dynojet will only give you the ability to tune WOT . To take full advantage of timing you need to do held power runs . Which can be done on a DynaPack .
Its not all about peak power, you need to get the most out of the Midrange and that will get you to your peak faster. 10 extra ft lbs at say 3000rpm will be better than a car with 2 extra hp at 8500rpm .
ex . here are 2 plots , Glens NA plot and a Comptech Supercharger plot , which would you rather have
I rather have the NA car . Expeicialy if I am tracking the car . The mid power is going to smoke the supercharged car on the track . The supercharger car will have a slight advantage in the straight . But It still has to play catch up as the NA car pulled out of every corner harder .
Just trying to get you guys to look at the bigger picture of should I say plot
This is just information , use it at will . Tuning is different for every car even with the same mods . I wish it was as easy as swapping maps with each other .
ex. a car that has been over fueled and has created carbon build up on pistons domes and in the combustion chamber will be more prone to detonation and cant take as much advantage to timing than one that has been properly fueled and has no build up on it .
As for the CA guys , Yes I do have a fuel advantage over here on the East coast with up to 94 at the pump . But we are no fans of Shell , so everything that we tune is usually Mobil 93 . We have even noticed difference in brands of fuel with different formulations will make different power.
FYI , for you East coasters, we will have the dyno at the Nor' Easter event .
As I have nothing bad to say about TorqueFreaks as they are great guys . But you are still limited on tuning ability with the Dynojet . If the have access to a Dynapack, use it. The Dynojet will only give you the ability to tune WOT . To take full advantage of timing you need to do held power runs . Which can be done on a DynaPack .
Its not all about peak power, you need to get the most out of the Midrange and that will get you to your peak faster. 10 extra ft lbs at say 3000rpm will be better than a car with 2 extra hp at 8500rpm .
ex . here are 2 plots , Glens NA plot and a Comptech Supercharger plot , which would you rather have
I rather have the NA car . Expeicialy if I am tracking the car . The mid power is going to smoke the supercharged car on the track . The supercharger car will have a slight advantage in the straight . But It still has to play catch up as the NA car pulled out of every corner harder .
Just trying to get you guys to look at the bigger picture of should I say plot
This is just information , use it at will . Tuning is different for every car even with the same mods . I wish it was as easy as swapping maps with each other .
ex. a car that has been over fueled and has created carbon build up on pistons domes and in the combustion chamber will be more prone to detonation and cant take as much advantage to timing than one that has been properly fueled and has no build up on it .
As for the CA guys , Yes I do have a fuel advantage over here on the East coast with up to 94 at the pump . But we are no fans of Shell , so everything that we tune is usually Mobil 93 . We have even noticed difference in brands of fuel with different formulations will make different power.
FYI , for you East coasters, we will have the dyno at the Nor' Easter event .
i followed this when tuning my car, i wanted a broad power band....very un honda.
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From: PNW
No doubt that NA dyno is amazing, and I too would like information on what he had in terms of mods and tuning source.
I am wondering how I can tune for my midrange now...
But at the same time, on a road course or track, you're either FULL THROTTLE or FULL BRAKE... So coming out of a turn in your mid-range power, you're still WOT, thus the dynojet WILL tune for the WOT in the mid-range.
You're saying it wont tune for maximum efficiency/power in the midrange for driving around town, when you're only part throttle and shifting at 3500, right?
Just making sure. I wonder how I can get THAT aspect tuned as well. Dayam. Thanks again.
Louie, interested in the BC?
I am wondering how I can tune for my midrange now...
But at the same time, on a road course or track, you're either FULL THROTTLE or FULL BRAKE... So coming out of a turn in your mid-range power, you're still WOT, thus the dynojet WILL tune for the WOT in the mid-range.
You're saying it wont tune for maximum efficiency/power in the midrange for driving around town, when you're only part throttle and shifting at 3500, right?
Just making sure. I wonder how I can get THAT aspect tuned as well. Dayam. Thanks again.
Louie, interested in the BC?
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From: Tallahassee, FL
I'm sure that he could tune it for bottom-end and midrange by making 3rd and 4th gear passes on the street -- it's not as reliable since he doesn't have a dyno plot there to look at, but if he's good enough he can do it. Just have him dyno it again afterwards to see what kind of gains/losses you have -- my roomate has a 12-second turbo'd Civic hatch that he has tuned on a PLX with Chrome software, he had a guy tune it while driving around town, took it to the track and ran 14s all day 
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From: Manchvegas, NH
Sorry sometimes I get confusing , Its the Canadian French in me . Plus I wrote this while on the crapper this morning ( see how too much info can be bad 
)
What I should have said is wide open throttle in a sweep .
Held power on a dynapack is telling the dyno to load break it at say 3000rpm . So now you can tune through the whole throttle range all the way to WOT. The dyno will never let the car run over 3000rpm .By doing this you give the motor time to build power and make most use of its timing settings . This will also let you tune for detonation with a load. That way you dont get surprized when trying to lug your car up a hill and it starts to detonate . This cant be duplicated on the street . Other than that you are just guessing at timing and trying a sweep pull again and again.
Back in the day when cars has distributers and mechanical advance , Dynojet's or inertia dynos were the thing , now that we have full control over what our ECU does inertia dyno are the Pentuim one's of our era ( outdated ) even though they can still get the job done to a point . Its not like having the newest dual core pumping out crazy frame rates and calculating things at the speed of light . New cars --New tuning methods
I guess the best way to try and do this on a street is timed acceleration runs . Thats the only way you will know if what you are putting in for timing is helping or not . But you have to make sure you are consistent.
As far as me telling you exactly what has been to Glen's motor , well thats what I get paid for . Its like asking BAR Honda what little secrets they have done to their car .
As far as the car goes now , I have the head off and and In the middle of prepping him a new one . When we started on Glens project he had the head done by someone in Jersey . To make the story short , they tuliped the stock valves poorly wich intern wore the valve guides and now consumes oil . I am also not happy with the port job . So I am building him a new head as we speak . We are shooting for 300whp without stroking it.
As mention before , it was done by my shop , and tuned by Giles @ Holyroller Dyno on a Dynapack. What other sources are you looking for ? A partial list of mods was listed a few pages back .
( see how too much info can be bad ) What I should have said is wide open throttle in a sweep .
Held power on a dynapack is telling the dyno to load break it at say 3000rpm . So now you can tune through the whole throttle range all the way to WOT. The dyno will never let the car run over 3000rpm .By doing this you give the motor time to build power and make most use of its timing settings . This will also let you tune for detonation with a load. That way you dont get surprized when trying to lug your car up a hill and it starts to detonate . This cant be duplicated on the street . Other than that you are just guessing at timing and trying a sweep pull again and again.
Back in the day when cars has distributers and mechanical advance , Dynojet's or inertia dynos were the thing , now that we have full control over what our ECU does inertia dyno are the Pentuim one's of our era ( outdated ) even though they can still get the job done to a point . Its not like having the newest dual core pumping out crazy frame rates and calculating things at the speed of light . New cars --New tuning methods
I guess the best way to try and do this on a street is timed acceleration runs . Thats the only way you will know if what you are putting in for timing is helping or not . But you have to make sure you are consistent.
As far as me telling you exactly what has been to Glen's motor , well thats what I get paid for . Its like asking BAR Honda what little secrets they have done to their car .
As far as the car goes now , I have the head off and and In the middle of prepping him a new one . When we started on Glens project he had the head done by someone in Jersey . To make the story short , they tuliped the stock valves poorly wich intern wore the valve guides and now consumes oil . I am also not happy with the port job . So I am building him a new head as we speak . We are shooting for 300whp without stroking it.
As mention before , it was done by my shop , and tuned by Giles @ Holyroller Dyno on a Dynapack. What other sources are you looking for ? A partial list of mods was listed a few pages back .
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Originally Posted by Twiztid,Apr 7 2006, 12:13 AM
So I am building him a new head as we speak . We are shooting for 300whp without stroking it.
300whp on a 2.0LWhat would you get out of a stroked/bored 2.2Ltr capable to rev 9000rpm+, 330whp ??