thanks!

 

It's so funny that if the gain from losing the hardtop is so minuscule, why are the CR owners so vehemently against it? It's not like it'd make your car HEAVIER than the other S2000s, it would still be the lightest AP2, which are still better than AP1s. But if keeping your precious advantage is that important, then by all means enjoy it until the only people left are other CR owners and then the handful of you that are left can have fun in your small spec CR class.

For me, if I owned a CR, I'd agree to running with the hardtop on if that is what will keep all the other S2000s to keep playing in the class. Then, it TRULY DOES become equal and a DRIVER's race, which is what I am truly after. I miss the time when BS was once all the same S2000 and it was down to DRIVERS.

But I understand the CR owners point of view. They have the advantage, so why should they give it up? Sometimes, you gotta do things for the greater good... This class has the potential to be the largest class at Nationals now and for a LONG time, but things must be done NOW to keep the parity and sustain the momentum.

I am but one voice. It's really up to the rest of you guys. One speck of sand is nothing, but many specks of sand shooting out of a sand-blaster... that's a different story

 

I don't know if that's directed in part at me, but if it was, you misread my thinking. I think the rule proposal's quite reasonable; I just think that it won't make any noticeable difference even if it passes. I read Marc's posts the same way.

No rule will ever eliminate people blaming their cars for their own failings.

 

I blame my car so much that I have a "new" steering rack and torque sensor sitting in my room waiting to be put in on my off day. (friday)







I see both side of the arguement and I don't know how I feel about either. To me I'm not on a "Marc P driving level" so it doesn't matter either way at this point. If I lost to a CR consistently by .05-.1 seconds then I'd have somthing to say but until then I sit back and eat my popcorn.

 

My head is crooked when I run with the top on and my helmet strapped. Bottom line, it is very uncomfortable for me. Look, we've gone against cars that were clearly course favored. Dover tour I watched the solstice just catapult out of a few tight sections that left my CR holding its nuts, so could I use the argument that We need to restrict the solstice boost to put it on par or level the playing field? No, but I changed my strategy by shifting to first, and drove the pissed out of it to take the win on the second day. There are way too many factors to say that winning by .001 had to do with weight.

At the end of the day, if I get my ass whooped by .100 or .200 and I know that I drove my best, I'm good with it. It just so happenned that the other guy made less mistake and outdrove me. Case in point, two S2000 CRs at dixie tour, second CR lost by .103, and the second CR driver took a shit before running, but still lost. The two CRs finished 1st and 2nd in pax with the rest of the field almost 8 tenths back. Second CR driver was thrilled with his position. The first CR driver clearly made less mistakes and outdrove the second place CR.

The class is diverse, and it will stay that way. There will always be courses that favors one car over another. The past Lincoln and blytheville tour just happened to havesome very well known talent driving the CR, therefore making it look good. The CR just happened to get favored on those two tour course. Requesting that the CR runs with its top on will not level the playing field.

 

lol

Anyway, I think you're confusing course dependancy with dominancy. Will there ever be a time that my 06 will be better than a CR if they're similarly prepped? No, it will never happen.

Not fitting in the car with the top up is a very good point, but that's why you would have the option of ballast. But the option of ballast would get more complicated from an enforcement point of view.

Anyway, I just thought I'd see if people would agree on this but clearly they don't so I'm done with it . Not a big enough deal for me.

 

So just for those willing to post what there cars weigh im curious what kind of change we are talking here.

We have a 2002 and after all of our prep (light exhaust, header, pulleys, 6lb battery, seats at min, no rear bar) we are at 2620# with a little more then half tank of gas (i think) This was on the scales in our shop not SCCA. is this light or heavy? From the way people are making it sound the CR is like 2500# or something.

Model to model exceptions in an ST class will never happen. Im sure one Evo is better then the rest, the 89 EF is lighter then the 90-91 EF, etc. Bottom line is that the nut behind the wheel decides the outcome.

Looking forward to this weekend at Toledo.....perhaps we need to all put some cars on the scales, share in our car development, and make sure the Mx-5 is not the car to have. I ran ST for 2 years and the sharing in knowledge was so great between most competitors. Thats why the damn EF is so fast. Its so far ahead in development over any other ST car. We need to do the same. Going into building this STR car it was like shooting in the dark (with the exception of jims post on set-up)

 

Sooo..... on that note, who's showing up at Toledo? I'll be there as 180 STR and ready to fit right in my normal mid-pack position. Hmm.. who knows, with a new clutch and maybe fully functioning brakes I might do better. Bah... =)

It will be interesting to see which car comes out on top in STR as there is a pretty good mix of cars.
FC RX7
AP1 S2Ks (early and late)
AP2 S2K (early and late)
AP2 S2K CR
NB Miata
NC MX5

Where did the MR2 Spyders, 350Z, and the Bimmer friends go?

-Dave

 

 

Not to sound like a broken record .... I recommend same scales, same day or the info is worthless. Even on the same scales on different days, my CR has been all over the place. That car has been weighed more times than I can remember for all the curious S2000 owners. In the end, the only difference between the S2000s is the parts. There is no magical lightweight model.

Back to your question, my CR seems to be most consistently weighing in around the 2680-2690 mark. The early AP1s are in the low 2700s, AP2s in the low-mid 2700s (bigger wheels/tires). Before someone tries to combat this, this is an approximate average. Sure, my CR has been in the 2500s on scales but I know this is outside the norm. These weights are based on the car in full B-Stock trim, with no top, an absolute full tank of gas, the big 1.375" swaybar and 275s on the front. Again, the parts will make up the difference quickly.

-Marc