There's actually a dedicated toledo thread but I'll be there as 183 STR. Looking forward to meeting a lot of you that I haven't met in real life (p.s. I'm not actually this argumentative, lol). I'll go to the scales for a heaviest STR car competition - mine's got stock exhaust and everything, all that's changed is wheels and suspension.

My car even has fresh wheel bearings as of 2 minutes ago so now you know I've got an advantage on everyone due to less friction .

 

Lots of heated debates about the CR advantages in the last couple of pages. First I have an 07 and here are my thought and reason. Street Touring in general can run all modification Stock class and more can with the exception of tire wear less than 140. Forcing the CR to run the hardtop in STR will NEVER happen unless it is forced on all cars in STOCK class. Removing soft top for all non CR does not fit the philosophy of street touring class and will NEVER happen, thats SSM I think. I don't know how dominating the CR will become in STR, but I think its staying for a while. Just like Evo RS and Z0K Solstice stay with their respective stock and steet touring class, so will the CR.

 

Ooops, I guess I need to peep my head out of the STR Prep thread every once in awhile. Sorry!

-D

 

I think you have to look at it from the STAC point of view.

If they slow down the CR and it becomes a spec standard AP2 class. Then the AP1 guys will want something, it becomes a spec AP1 class, and now the NC Miata guys want something to make them as fast or faster. Now the NB Miata guys fell left out so the STAC has to give them something. It will never stop once they go down that road.

I don't think it will ever happen, it just opens up to big of a can of worms for the STAC.

I will agree that the 2004-2007 S2000 seems to be the odd car out on paper. Nothing that makes them better and a little heaver. 2008 and 2009 can update to a CR if they want.

Really I think the difference is very small. I would most likely finish in the same place if I started with a standard 06+ or a CR. (current ECU rules)

Robert Jones

 

The right/wrong car changes as much as wind direction... The CR is always going to be superior on paper. Question is, would you notice?

To add something more constructive, here is what is going on with my car.

I just put on my T1R 70-EM and it sounds great at idle, sounds great under full throttle, tolerable with very light throttle, but it has a loud resonation from 3000-5000RPM under acceleration or deceleration. Does anybody have experience with adding the 70mm HFC and how it affects resonations with a 70mm exhaust? Somebody mentioned the tone going raspy but no mention of pitch or amplitude. The car is getting loud ><

When I did a similar weight drop on the last car I built, it needed a spring change to account for the 60lbs removed from the back end- the car got loose. While I only removed 40lbs on the S2000, I opted to decrease the rear rates by 50#. I didn't run the car this weekend, but it was driven by a local STR MX-5 driver and he said the car did everything really well and he PAXed only slightly behind me in a built STU STI. I've been thinking about increasing camber but I'm concerned about disrupting car balance.

Moton Clubsports
compression F/R: 4/3 from soft @185psi
rebound F/R: 3/4 from soft
anti-roll bars F/R: Gendron bearing 1.25"x0.25" @6/stock
ride-height F/R: 13.0"/12.9"
springs F/R: 850#/700#, 7"x2.5" + helpers
toe F/R: 0"/1/4"
camber F/R: -2.4*/-2.2*
17x9 6ULR w/ 255 Hankooks @36psi
intake stock, 71R 70-EM cat-back
VTEC 5500RPM, REV LIMITER 8400RPM, timing and fuel adjusted

For you power junkies, here is a really rudimentary tune I did prior to installing the cat-back. At some point I'll actually tune it.

 

Good luck with that! A mechanical failure is different. No one will disagree that you would have driven better with a healthier car. The diff blowing at the Blytheville pro kept me from running 2nd or 3rd sessions. I blame the car and the owner for not catching it sooner. Your steering rack was messing with both you and Des. Write off that event and don't event think about it.

-Marc

 

Putting an exhaust tip that Extended the exhaust tip 3 inches made a surprising big difference in the 3K-4K and again at 5K on my ASM70, but looks a little odd. At around 4.5k it did not make much difference

 

Thanks marc

As for the t1r 70mm, you have the em which is the "quietier" one of the 70mm's. Mine is the 70r. I put a berk 70mm hfc on it and it will throw a code once a month or so but other then that I like it. A hfc did make the car a bit raspy but not as bad as alot of s2ks I've heard. If you don't wanna worry about throwing a code get the 63mm but if your expecting the tuning change just go on with the 70mm hfc because it flows better.

 

Sorry, but your "STAC point of view" couldn't be more wrong. Some of the things they strongly emphasize are parity and class participation. Even if we follow your logic, if we leave things as is, then STR becomes a spec CR class, with a production run of 699 cars for the US, vs your "spec AP2 class", of which there were 28,391 units made for the US (excluding the 700 CRs). Add to the fact that AP2s are much cheaper than CRs on average, which scenario would see more participation?

And your argument that different car owners will then want something too, man I think you hit every bump on the logical fallacy path ( I used to teach logical fallacies, so I'd know). If AP1 owners wanted something, we'd be strongly pushing for stock ECUs in ST*, which would kill ALL the AP2s with it's gearing. Nothing of that sort is even floating around, and I, an AP1 owner, am actually in the process of trying to open up ECUs for ALL cars, which would still not make the AP1 even close to the "car to have."

What can of worms? The can was opened when they let the CR into STR in the first place. I'm just trying to figure out a solution that affects the least amount of people and the least amount of grumbling. I'm not saying we should ban the CR from STR. It's too late for that. At least my solution still lets CR owners come play in STR still.

I don't know why you'd think the 2004-2007 would be the odd car out on paper. That car would be the AP1. Whatever you do to an AP1, there's no way you're ever going to make up for the smaller engine.

 

If auto-x has ever taught me anything, it's that power is only a small percentage of the game. It's how the car gets around a corner that counts. Put that in your AP1 vs. AP2 vs. CR pipe and smoke it. There's only one of those three chassis that's different when it comes to suspension geometry.